Talk:Ego death

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Ego death[edit]

It is something you experience. Not something passed on as some kind of cultural artefact or learned idea. You cant read about it and gain insight. You can't explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it.....and yet - if you really have experienced it - you know that deep down..... everyone else understands it too because we are all the same creature, and separate identities are an illusion. Words are turds — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.69.145.239 (talk) 00:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Link Removal[edit]

Hi, I have removed all of the links due to guideline violation, and another editor reverted and requested an explanation on Talk. So I am here to provide an explanation of the reasoning for removing each of the links. The guidelines that I am referring to can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided

The links about psychedelics, spirituality, self-help and depersonalization contain a lot of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research.

The self-awakening forum serves as a form of advertising and promotion of a website.

The fashion link is a form of advertising and requires registration to access the content.

Please let me know if you have any disagreements or confusions, I would be more than happy to clarify.--198.71.112.21 (talk) 01:36, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; could you also copy-paste the specific links? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 02:53, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshua Jonathan: My apologies for the late response. I have quoted parts of my reply above and copy/pasted the links directly from the article below to each quoted part of my reply.

The links about psychedelics, spirituality, self-help and depersonalization contain a lot of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research.

Psychedelics
Psychedelics and spirituality/religion
Spirituality
Self-help
Depersonalisation

The self-awakening forum serves as a form of advertising and promotion of a website.

Self-awakening

The fashion link is a form of advertising and requires registration to access the content.

Fashion

--198.71.112.21 (talk) 01:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks;

  • 1 - usefull site with a lot of information on psychdelics
  • 2 - also usefull, I think, when you're interested in this kind of stuff (though we might add a link to a drugs abuse warning page too)
  • 3 - agreed, far-out; removed
  • 4 - interesting, but spammy; removed
  • 5 - dead link?; removed
  • 6 - Almaas seems relevant; spiritual teacher with good credentials
  • 7 - dead link; removed
  • 8 - flimsy (incomplete archive?); removed
  • 9 - Shinzen Young is relevant; he's got usfull things to say about ego death and depersonalisation
  • 10 - dead link; removed
  • 11 - too bloggy; removed
  • 12 - cute!
  • 13 is odd indeed indeed; removed

Well, that's a lot, ehm, emptier yet, isn't it? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:51, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Joshua Jonathan: Thank you, it looks much cleaner. Here are my updated criticisms of some of the remaining links. I am also referencing the guidelines linked in my initial post.

The Diamond Approach, "Ego Death" - Should be removed per #5 guideline(the site advertises services/products)

Liberation Unleashed - forum dedicated to ego death - Should be removed per #10 guideline (chat/discussion forum)

Depersonalisation versus Enlightenment -Should be removed per #11 guideline (it's a blog that's not written by a recognized authority. If Shizen Young is relevant, the blog is not written by him anyways.)

--198.71.112.21 (talk) 05:16, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing on Nirvana?[edit]

Isn't this related? --46.91.55.242 (talk) 18:40, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– there is a section on Buddhism in the article, but the sources do not relate ego death to nirvana – if you can provide a reliable source (WP:RS) that equates ego death and nirvana it can be added to the article – cheers -Epinoia (talk) 19:05, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ganj e Hozour TV program[edit]

I removed the following content from the article:

=== Ganj e Hozour === The concept of ego death is also seen in the teachings of Parviz Shahbazi[1] (Iranian mysticism researcher), where according to the ideology derived from the poems of great figures such as Rumi, human consciousness is suffering from an error and a sense of defect, it is called "mental self"[2][3][4] by Shahbazi and says that because this kind of artificial identity is a kind of pain, so every decision and action based on the thoughts and feelings of this fake identity comes back to pain and this cycle continues in the human mind and life indefinitely,[5] unless, by surrendering and returning to the teachings of great men like Rumi, we slow down this process and achieve the "sense of presence" that this fake identity covers, and from there an opening to get rid of this mental plague will emerge. According to Shahbazi, "sense of presence" like light in the dark leads to repeated identifications of repetitive thought patterns of "mental self"[6] (or, according to Eckhart Tolle, the same as shining the light of consciousness on mental processes[7]) and the individual who pursues those identifications, gradually, he/she recognizes this sense of imperfection and this false identity[8] (it happens to some at once, such as the Buddha or the master of Rumi, Shams Tabrizi), and he/she finally gives up of it. In this state, the person is freed from captivity in his thoughts and feelings and joins the space of non-existence (a space of life and life force, empty of thought, the mind thinks by feeding from this space). In other words, in addition to thinking and feeling, he/she achieves an open space that is full of life, stillness and peace, and from now on, the point of reliance of his personality becomes this space of non-existence instead of pure thought, which is of pain, lack and competition. Therefore, every decision and action of his/her (although it is done with the tools of the mind) will have a good result for him/her (it does not cause pain to oneself or others, because it is not caused by a feeling of inferiority, lack, or competition, this concept mentioned in Buddha's teachings[9] under the name of "Duḥkha"[10][11][12] and also in Hinduism[13] and the writings of Eckhart Tolle[14][15]). In fact, this is the same direct perception and action through the unity of existence that is also referred to in Islamic mysticism.[16][17][18][19] This is the death of the ego, that is, the person arrives in a mature state of consciousness and no longer defines himself or herself in terms of thoughts as separate from the world (Nondualism),[20] thus instead of opposing and resisting against the components of the external world (which include confronting other human beings and resisting events that are considered the divine will), joins the world and achieves harmony and peace. By this way he/she can calmly act according to his/her needs in the outside world.[21][22][23][24][25][26]

References

  1. ^ Parviz Shahbazi, Ganj e Hozour (Treasure of Presence) TV, [Hotbird 12520, V, 27500], [Galaxy 19 12028, H, 22000], [Yahsat 11766, V, 27500]
  2. ^ "آینه و تصویر - من ذهنی" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  3. ^ "من ذهنی ذهن بدون ناظر است" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  4. ^ "من ذهنی چیست؟ آیا ما میتوانیم حقیقت را آن گونه که هست ببینیم؟" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  5. ^ "گنج حضور با پرویز شهبازی شماره ٢٨٨" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  6. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۴۷۵، بخش سوم
  7. ^ تُله, اکهارت. تمرین نیروی حال (in Persian). Vol. ۱۸-۳۱.
  8. ^ "ناظر بر ذهن" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  9. ^ Buddha, CRISTALINKS
  10. ^ Malcolm Huxter (2016). Healing the Heart and Mind with Mindfulness: Ancient Path, Present Moment. Routledge. p. 10. ISBN 978-1-317-50540-2., Quote: "dukkha (unsatisfactoriness or suffering) (....) In the Introduction I wrote that dukkha is probably best understood as unsatisfactoriness."
  11. ^ "Translating Dukkha as Unhappiness". June 2017.
  12. ^ Peter Harvey (2015). Steven M. Emmanuel (ed.). A Companion to Buddhist Philosophy. John Wiley & Sons. pp. 26–31. ISBN 978-1-119-14466-3.
  13. ^ توفیقی، حسین: آشنایی با ادیان بزرگ. سازمان مطالعه و تدوین کتب علوم انسانی دانشگاه‌ها (سمت): مؤسسه فرهنگی طه و مرکز جهانی علوم اسلامی. تهران: ۲۰۰۰.
  14. ^ تُله, اکهارت. زمینی نو (in Persian). p. ۳.
  15. ^ تُله, اکهارت. نیروی حال (in Persian). Vol. ۶-۱۶.
  16. ^ "وجود منبسط از دیدگاه عرفان اسلامی و حکمت متعالیه" (in Persian). Retrieved 9 November 2021.
  17. ^ شهیدی, سعیده سادات. "وجود منبسط از دیدگاه عرفان اسلامی و حکمت متعالیه". مشکواه النور (in Persian). سال ۱۳۸۴ - شماره ۳۰ و ۳۱
  18. ^ نژاد سلیم, رحیم. "وحدت وجود در عرفان اسلامی". کیهان اندیشه (in Persian). سال ۱۳۷۱ - شماره ۴۱
  19. ^ نظری, رقیه. "وحدت وجود در عرفان اسلامی". جستار (in Persian): ۷۰-۸۴. دوره ۸، شماره ۲۵.۲۶ - شماره پیاپی ۲۵ - بهار ۱۳۸۹ - صفحه ۷۰-۸۴
  20. ^ Bucke, Richard. Cosmic Consciousness. ISBN 978-0-7914-3067-5.
  21. ^ شهبازی, پرویز. گنج حضور (in Persian). Vol. ۱. تهران: فردوس. p. ۱۵-۵۳. جلد ۱
  22. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۸۴۳، بخش اول و دوم و سوم و چهارم، تاریخ اجرا: ۱ دسامبر ۲۰۲۰ - ۱۲ آذر ۱۳۹۹
  23. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۸۸۱، بخش اول و دوم و سوم و چهارم، تاریخ اجرا: ۳۱ اوت ۲۰۲۱ - ۱۰ شهریور ۱۴۰۰
  24. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۸۳۴، بخش اول و دوم و سوم و چهارم، تاریخ اجرا: ۲۹ سپتامبر ۲۰۲۰ - ۹ مهر ۱۳۹۹
  25. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۸۴۸، بخش اول و دوم و سوم و چهارم، تاریخ اجرا: ۵ ژانویه ۲۰۲۱ - ۱۷ دی ۱۳۹۹
  26. ^ برنامه گنج حضور با اجرای پرویز شهبازی، شماره ۸۷۰، بخش اول و دوم و سوم و چهارم، تاریخ اجرا: ۸ ژوئن ۲۰۲۱ - ۱۹ خرداد ۱۴۰۰

Ganj e Hozour is a TV program, and so may be a questionable source, run by Parviz Shahbazi, whose credentials I was unable to confirm. The content seems to be mainly Synthesis, cobbling together ideas from Rumi, Shams Tabrizi, Eckhart Tolle, Buddha and Hinduism to support some undefined concept. The content makes inappropriate use of italics and uses Puffery, as in “great figures”. Most of the references are in Persian and so cannot be verified by the average English language reader (WP:NONENG – “English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones”).

Overall, I can’t see this as being an improvement to the article. It appears to be mainly promotion for Ganj e Hozour TV and Parviz Shahbazi (WP:NOTPROMOTION) - Epinoia (talk) 04:11, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read through it, looked at the sources. This is basically a tele-evangelist preaching non-dualism or neo-advaita, or something. It's a random TV priest. There probably are hundreds of similar gurus and old men that preaches the same thing, in various countries. Also the sources that does not link directly to his TV program is not of high quality. He could be mentioned in the article, but then as a single sentence with a couple of good sources, rather than a whole section. The curious reader could then click the references, and learn more. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 11:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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