Talk:Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad

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Comments[edit]

The picture of #484 that is current attached to the article is from the Cumbres & Toltec. Can someone provide a Durango and Silverton picture? n2xjk 18:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Review/rating=[edit]

Need closeup shots of engines, cars, water tank, yard, roundhouse, etc. A good map of the line is also needed. And more inline refs. I suggest the B-class be downgraded to Start, and the importance upgraded to High. DSNGR is a premier line in Colo and known nationally. Respectfully submitted. LanceBarber (talk) 10:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note from a reader[edit]

I received the following note from a reader:

You have incorrectly descirbed the technical details about the steam locomotive science. This is becoming more frequent in this modern era when people today who are not familiar with railroading as hobbiests once were are now mis-naming and incorrectly describing things they do not understand in ways that were not originally termed and used, and are thus creating ignorant misunderstandings.

WHAT WIKIPEDIA SHOWS THAT IS INCORRECT:

Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad D&SNG Engines The Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad operates coal-fired steam engines and diesel engines. [edit] Steam [edit] Technical information The steam-powered locomotives used today on the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad were built during the 1920s. There are two classes, K-28s and K-36s, which are based on wheel arrangement, and pulling power of the locomotive.

The K represents the nickname "Mikado" that describes a Japanese locomotive design of 2-8-2. Two non-powered, pivoting wheels are in front of eight driving wheels, which are connected to driving rods powered by the engines pistons, and finally two non-powered trailer wheels are located under the cab of the locomotive.

The numbers 28 and 36 designate pulling or tractive effort of the locomotive in thousands of pounds. The tractive effort of K-28s with a full tender is rated at 27,500 pounds, and the tractive effort of a K-36 is a 36,200 pounds. The weight of a K-28 with a full tender is 254,500 and a K-36 weighs 286,600 pounds with a full tender.

THE CORRECTED INFORMATION:

D&SNG Engines The Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad operates coal-fired steam engines and mechanical diesel engines. [edit] Steam [edit] Technical information The steam-powered locomotives used today on the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad were cemercially built during the 1920s. There are two classes, K-28s and K-36s, which are based on the Whyte System of locomotive wheel arrangement, and on the starting traction power of the locomotive. (a 460 class is soon to be overhauled on the Durango & Sivlerton, which were the original DRG&W -- later D&RGW -- narrow gauge 2-8-2 locomotives rebuilt from standard gauge 2-8-0 locomotives.)

The K represents the name "Mikado" that is derived from the first 2-8-2 locomotive designed and built for Japan's first railway. Two non-powered, pivoting guiding wheels on one axle are in front of eight "connected" driving wheels, which are connected by flexible driving rods powered by the engines pistons, and finally two non-powered trailer wheels are located under the firebox (and cab -- and sometimes behind the firebox) of the locomotive.

The class numbers 28 and 36 designate starting tractive effort of the locomotive in thousands of pounds. The starting tractive effort of K-28s with a full tender is rated at 27,500 pounds, and the starting tractive effort of a K-36 is a 36,200 pounds. Horsepower ratings are seldom used for stream locomotives after World War 1, of which there is the "indicated horse power" and the "rated horse power", which are not the same values. The weight of a K-28 with a full tender is 254,500 and a K-36 weighs 286,600 pounds with a full tender.

THE EXPLANATION FOR THE CORRECTED INFORMATION:

The Whyte System is the method of designating locmotive wheel arrangements, and was derived from its English creator to accurately portray a locmotive's construction. Other systems only used numerals that counted the axles (the French Sytem for instance) or even used alpha letters and even combinations of such in Europe.

Starting tractive effort replaced all other forms of designated energy output descriptions because it is the most basic. Contrary to all the other foms of lcomotion, if a steam locomotive can start a train, usually it can either keep it moving or at least accellerate a little bit such as on a grade, but often can accelorate much more using "limited cutoff" with adjustment of the reverseing lever back from full forward. Using limited cutoff, steam locomotive horsepower increases beyond its starting up to its maximum at a certain speed, whereas diesel-electric locomotives even with their electrical transitions are more powerful starting and then lose their horsepower the faster they go.

Although there was a 2-8-2 modified and built I think for the Lehigh Valley in the 1870s,like the Norfolk & Western Y-6b, it was a 2-8-2 in name only. The first manufacutred 2-8-2 was by Baldwin Locomotive Works for the Japanese railway and was named "Midado" as a marketing strategy to the Japanese, which name is a title of potentate level of authority in the Samurai system of old Japan.

It is important to understand that the leading guide wheels "adjust" the locomotive's alignment in curves, preventing "wheel climb" that derails a locomotive at speed and prevents excessive wear of the drive wheel flanges and rails.

Trailing wheels serve either or both purposes. First, they guide the locomotive when backing in reverse, as with the first 2-6-2s and 2-8-2s of the Lehigh Valley of the 1870s, and was also true of the modern Norfolk & Western Y-6b 2-8-8-2, latter of which was actually a 2-8-8-0 with a "backing-up" trailing wheel that the Western Maryland removed on their Y-6bs. Second, on larger locomotives, the trailing wheel supports the over-hanging weight of the firebox (not true of the Y-6b) and provided "riding" stability of the boiler, since the larger fireboxes were too large to fit between the drive wheels.

From about the 1880s to the 1915s, railroads preferred to concentrate on steam locomotive horsepower because the trains were shorter. But with the advent of air brakes, trains became so long that horsepower was a poor rating, particularly in grade territory. Large drive wheels can be "too slippery" on long heavy trains, which is why those locomotives have a lower "factor of adhesion" which effects starting tractive effort, which is based on a combination of other factors such as boiler pressure and cylinder size and piston stroke. Rather than include those complex rating combinations, the much simpler starting tractive effort rating has been employed as the primary indicator ever since, even with diesel-electric locomotives. Tractive effort is very rarely employed to rate capability of moving locomotives because it is very variable according to a variety of conditions far beyond those employed in starting tractive effort evaluations.

Mr. Libris Fidelis former locomotive engineer

Copied here with his permission. Fred Talk 16:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Geographic coordinates[edit]

The coordinates given for the railroad are completely wrong. They point to a spot about 7 miles directly east of Durango, on an old dirt road that is not and never was the right-of-way of the D&S railroad. I can't figure out whether the coordinates of an extended entity like a railroad should point to the tracks somewhere in mid-system or to the most important feature on the route. I would suggest that the coordinates of the Durango depot would be an excellent reference point of the latter sort They are: 37.269113,-107.88254 Douglas W. Jones (talk) 19:39, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Heavily lacking citations[edit]

It's been a while since I've last seen this page, and it is lacking a lot of citations. Most of the info is at least looking correct from my "foamer" background knowledge, but to the average reader, it'd look like there's a lot of unsupported claims throughout the page. I've gone in and made some corrections (and removed the seemingly forced and unnecessary presence of D&RGW 315 outside of the visiting equipment section) but whoever moderates this page the most should at least cite the D&SNG Guide Book, and some other D&S sources out there. Their "All Aboard" magazines have some info about 483 and the DL-535E locomotives, and I'm sure it's not hard to find other sources out there. (See: https://online.fliphtml5.com/xbqr/hbpn/#p=26)

Where was the origins of their newly built "F40PHNG" Locomotives stated specifically? (and why does the page call them "MP2000NG" lol) They're built out of F40PH locos, but who stated they're from Tri-Rail?