Talk:Doctrine of signatures/Archive 1

Archive 1

Traditional Chinese medicine

I'm sure this crops up in Chinese Medicine as well - however I'm struggling to find the reference to it either in the Materia Medica I have, or the Su Wen. More to come hopefully! Mugwumpjism (talk) 02:22, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Long lists

We now have long bulletted lists contributed by present-day believers that there actually is a doctrine of signature, viz. The doctrine of signatures can be applied to food to determine the usefullness of that food to the human body."". Is it all drawn from the book that's been mentioned? These assertions are not presented as reports of published material.--Wetman (talk) 18:49, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Science section

Is there a source for the science section that doesn't require a subscription? ——Martin^phi ☎ Ψ Φ—— 07:28, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

More (and free) sources are always better. I'll have a look later if I have time. Verbal chat 07:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

ALSO, in the science section, it says that thorny plants are good for your immune system. How does my immune system look thorny? This would be the doctrine of post-hoc metaphor signatures. -- Bipedia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.140.72 (talk • contribs)

Sentence

I removed the following sentence because it does not logically link to the the previous ones, unless we are to suppose that Boehm's theory was known to the Anglo-Saxons: "Many of the plants that were so regarded today still carry the word root "wort", an Anglo-Saxon word meaning "plant" or "herb", as part of their modern name." It may be that the term 'wort' was more commonly retained for plants that were understood to be medicinal. I wouldn't know. But that's not quite the same as the concept of signatures as such, and in any case we'd need a citation. Paul B (talk) 11:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Removal of section

Per the above discussion, I'm deleting the whole "modern" section as irrelevant. The DoS is a concept from early-modern proto-science, and should be presented as such in this article. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Whoa there boy, hold your horses!!

It looks as if this article has been started by someone who needs to research this topic some more, so please slow down !! The doctrine of signatures as such is a common-place of esoteric thought and can be found in diverse authors including Della Porta and Sir Thomas Browne. Whilst appreciating your enthusiasm to contribute to wikipedia a little more care and research is needed here before charging in willy-nilly, even perhaps having to use the sandbox to clarify your thoughts and ideas!! Norwikian (talk) 17:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand, who is your comment directed at? This article has been around since 2004, so whoever started it is no longer a newbie! Verbal chat 17:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Dutch version for input

Hi I see this article is marked to lack references. I am not familiar with the demands for the english wiki so I'll translate the Dutch page on signature doctrine. Hope pats of it can be inserted by a native English speaker who knows about the requirements. Please leave it here long enough so ppl can use it for source digging. Arakrys (talk) 17:13, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

• Disclaimer medical lemma

According to the doctrine of signatures visible properties of (particularly) plants that appear similar to parts of the human body give indications about the parts of the human body they can be used for. This doctrine states that the similarity has been made on purpose by the Creator or nature.

History

The oil glands in the leaves of St Johns'Wort refer to the pores in the skin, which is allegedly a signature for a positive effect on skun problems.

The Doctrin of Signatures is found in ancient healing/medicine en was already applied in the ancient China. Still the phallic shaped horn of the rhinoceros and Ginseng are seen as libido or potency enhancing, albeit the effect has never been shown (Varro E. Tyler, 1999, Tamarra S. James, "An Introduction to the Doctrine of Signatures"

).

In pieces/essays by Galen (131-200) there are indications for the doctrine of signatues (Tamarra S. James, Varro E. Tyler, Ph.D. "False Tenets of Paraherbalism" (gepost op 31 aug 1999)).

Although the Swiss docter Paracelsus von Hohenheim (1493-1541) is often said to have layn the foundations of this doctrine, in fact he was a seeker for the core, the essence of medications, in which a visual similarity was not enough. A literal translation of plant shapes or colours to medicinal applications cannot be found with Paracelsus . (sorry Dutch book)

The healer and alchemist Della Porta (1538 tot 1615) describes in his book Phytognomonica a system of similarities between plants, animals and constellations based on signatures.

The DoS can be found in the works of 17th century botanist and herbalist William Coles (1626-1662) and Nicholas Culpeper. Coles pointed among others to the walnut which is very good for the head because it looks like brains. he saw the glands in the leaves of Saint-Johnswort as little holes that he says were signs for the skinpores so it indicates a positive effect on all sorts of wounds and skinproblems.

Up until the 19th century the DoS played a role in the regular medical texts. Around this period the scientific method became leading in biology and the art of healing.

In so-called alternative healing such as homeopathie however the DoS is still in use.

Signatures

Various outside properties are indicated. Round stems indicate female properties, and are supposed to have a soothing and harmonizing effect, while square and angular stems are male, so good to increase immunity/resistance and firmness/strength. A hollow stem in this view refers to the oesophagus and windpipe.

More signatures: Flower color

• Yellow: for liver or digestion
• Red: for blood and heart
• Blue: cooling, trachea
• Purple: stimulating AND calming for the nerval system
• Green: calming for the inner organs
• White: soothing and harmonizing

Flowering

• upward: stimulating for the levenskracht (life power/energy)
• downward: harmonising for the bovenpool (upper pole??)
• horizontal: works on blood and oxygen circulation

Leave

• Small, delicate leaves: relieves cramps
• Large leaves: adstringentwerken samentrekkend
• kidney shaped: for the kidney
• heart shaped: for the heart

• hairs: works on the skin, hairs and mucea

Thorns: increase resistance, stimulating and fever inducing

(various online sources...)

Plant names

The 'lung shaped' leave of lungwort, with white stains that remind us of coughed up slime, and the piunk and blue flowers that refer to the oxygen rich and poor blood, had convinced people that this plant can be applied in case of lung problems.

Various plant names clearly indicate their application. If there also is a visual similarity with the organ to be treated, the name may indicate an application of the DoS Lungwort (illustration).

Christianity

The Europese Christian metaphysics made a connection to theology: the Creator is responsable for the shape of all living beings and thereby shows their qualities. For the people of the late middle ages the world was full of such evidence for the existence of God,. The law of the correspondence of Hermetism "As above, so below; as below so above" is being (uitgedrukt) as the relation between the macrocosm and the microcosm.

The philosopher Michel Foucault showed how this doctrine was being applied much broader/wider, such as in the exegesis of the Bible and other texts, in symbolism and the knowledge of the visible and the non visible. For that time it was seen as something real and coherent. (source: ?Elling & Van Asseldonk? I can look his up if you want me to)

Is DoS right?

The brainshape of the fruit of the walnut, combined with the fact that like the brain the fruit is safely packed in a hard shell which is surrounded by the soft tissue (shown in top left corner), accoridng to the DoS indicates that the walnut has positive effects on the brain. Indeed the nut contains positive *stuf* for the brain.

In defense of the DoS many cases are cited where there is indeed a connection between physical effects of the plant and visual properties. For instance, the walnut Coles mentioned, of which the shape reminds us of brains in the skull, indeed contains fatty acids that are important for the functioning of the brain.

Critics say these connections are pure coincidence, and there are examples as well were the apparent similarity is not a clue for the medicinal effect. For instance the medical effects ascribd to Alchemilla for female problems are not scientifically proben, and lungswort is according to research as good as not helping with lung troubles.

Healing sich as in the 1697 book by Nicolas Lémery who recommend the application of the powdered skull from a person who died by violence for brain diseases is not based on empirical evidence byt on analogie-denken. For scientists the DoS now is considered to be Pseudoscience.

References