Talk:Disorderly conduct

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Cleanup[edit]

This article needs major cleanup. It's very sloppy, poorly written and confusing.

Seriously... Capital punishment for a charge of disorderly conduct? How is that possible?Brian Schlosser42 (talk) 13:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Statutory?[edit]

What's the definition again? Is the charge of "disorderly conduct" then based on breaking a law or breaking a statute? Does a statute supersede a law or rights that have been judged law of the land? just wondering how the article can be clearer on this.

Merge Picking quarrels and provoking trouble[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge, given the arguments that amount to independent notability. Klbrain (talk) 17:30, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The literal translation is much less frequently used than disorderly conduct. Disorderly conduct itself being a catch-all crime is prone to abuses, and [Picking quarrels and provoking trouble] is just a Chinese variant. In fact, "picking quarrels" is an article of the disorderly conduct criminal law section that is currently cited. Talltaller8 (talk) 08:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Before deciding to move the page, knowing the official English translation of the crime term is needed. I think we should follow such translation. Mariogoods (talk) 10:29, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The article is "有下列寻衅滋事行为之一，破坏社会秩序的…", literally "the following conducts of picking quarrels and provoking trouble, that disturb the social order..." Alternatively, "Whoever undermines public order with anyone of the following provocative and disturbing behaviors..." according to https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cgvienna/eng/dbtyw/jdwt/crimelaw/t209043.htm --Talltaller8 (talk) 11:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no official English translation of the Chinese Criminal Law. The term "Picking quarrels and provoking trouble" or similar variations are used extensively in ENglish-language newspapers and other reliable sources, so per WP:COMMONNAME the current article name is correct. There are no sources that I have been able to find that use the term "disorderly conduct" in relation to someone charged with this crime. BabelStone (talk) 11:23, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The name is not at dispute here, so WP:COMMONNAME is irrelavant to the argument. I'm proposing to _merge_ it into a subsection of disorderly conduct, as I initially contended that it is just a Chinese variant. Note that currently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disorderly_conduct#Criminal_law already cites "Articles 277 to 304" of the Penal Code, which happens to include Article 293 "Picking quarrels and provoking trouble". Talltaller8 (talk) 21:31, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The Chinese crime has a very specific and idiosyncratic name, "picking quarrels and provoking trouble", which is certainly not the same as "disorderly conduct". All the referenced English language sources for people arrested for this crime use the term "picking quarrels and provoking trouble" or minor variations thereof. Moreover, there is a strong political element to this crime that "disorderly conduct" does not capture. BabelStone (talk) 08:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The western media mostly pick up the political ones, but a lot of conducts can be charged with this. Basically, whenever the prosecutors feel someone should be charged with _something_. I remember there was a guy who intentionally damaged public property, but the value didn't exceed the threshold for criminal encroaching, so he got charged with "picking quarrels and provoking trouble". It is a very board offense originated from a even boarder catch-all offense called hooliganism. Yes, it is abused by the authority, as expected when you have a vague catch-all crime with prosecutorial discretion going nuts. The process of choosing the charge still sounds similar to disorderly conduct, just that western prosecutors don't incline to feel someone should be charged in political scenarios. Talltaller8 (talk) 11:20, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. This is specifically about a part of Chinese law, not about disorderly conduct in general. If anything, the title could be changed to reflect that. 175.159.22.107 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:04, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.