Talk:Dic Penderyn

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Songs etc[edit]

A single-edit IP added to the list

Richard lewis from priorslee is better

without any info comparable to what the other entries have. Research needed.
--Jerzy•t 07:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An execution in St. Mary Street(which is also frequently misdefined in speech so as to include High Street) is unlikely. The site is believed to be just to the north of Church Street. Confirmation required----Clive Sweeting

Date of death[edit]

They are two conflicting dates of death in this article. Did he die on the 13th or the 23rd of August? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.186.200 (talk) 13:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Date of death has been corrected. Couldn't find a source for 23 August, so changed it to 13. Cath folant 22:18, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Conflicting information[edit]

I read through the one working source (100 Welsh Heroes) and it often doesn't agree with the article:

The source says nothing about whether Penderyn was actually involved in the uprising, it just says he was blamed for it. The section 'Trial' also says both that he was the leader and that there is no evidence he was involved at all. I'm more inclined to believe he wasn't involved but we should research this further.
It says Penderyn was the only one sentenced to death for the uprising ('Although 28 people had been arrested, only he was sentenced to death.'), but the Wiki article says Lewis Lewis was also sentenced to death but had his sentence commuted.
It says Penderyn was one of 'the men who had flocked to Merthyr Tydfil in search of work', but the 'Life' section says he moved there with his family in 1819 so his father could work in the mines.

So now there are a bunch of citation needed tags on most everything the source doesn't agree with. I considered taking the material out but thought I should discuss before deleting. Cath folant 20:31, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so the above is taken care of but there's another source problem. This blog post, which I have used to source a significant chunk of the article, is suspiciously similar in content to the article itself and I suspect it has used Wikipedia as a source. This means that the article may now be circularly sourced. I don't know any way of confirming the circular sourcing but a more trustworthy source should be tracked down. Any help would be really appreciated here. Cath folant 19:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Best to remove any suspected circular references, replacing them with CN templates. I've found several reliable sources on Dic Penderyn, none of which appear to be circular:National Library of Wales, South Wales Police Museum, BBC and The Clwyd-Powys Archaeological Trust. In addition to those online, is the Welsh Academi Encylopaedia of Wales and John Davies' History of Wales.

Re Penderyn's involvement: The National Library source says “There is no evidence that Dic Penderyn took any part in this action” (referring to the attack on the house of Joseph Coffin) and “It is not known that Dic Penderyn took any part in the activities that followed” referring to waylaying of an ammunition-party from Brecon and the ambushing and disarming of the Swansea Yeomanry. It does say, however, that Donald Black “had seen Dic in the crowd” in Merthyr, and I don't think this is usually disputed.

Re the death sentences: The Welsh Academi Encyclopaedia, the National Library the BBC and the South Wales Police Museum say Lewis Lewis was also sentenced to death.

Re Penderyn's early years: The National Library source says “There is no certain evidence of Dic Penderyn 's movements until the outbreak of the Merthyr Tydfil riots of 1831”. The Welsh Academi Encyclopaedia begins by saying 'A native of Aberavon, he was, at the time of the Merthyr Rising (1831), a miner in Merthyr Tydfil.” The South Wales Police Museum says “Born in Aberavon in Glamorgan in 1808, he and his family moved to Merthyr in 1819. Dic and his father both found mining jobs in the town.”

The article could be improved by adding a background to the events leading to the Merthyr Rising (Wikilinked to Merthyr Rising as the Main Article). I'm happy to help. Let me know your thoughts. Daicaregos (talk) 10:01, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I haven't responded for some weeks -- there's been a lot going on and I haven't been at Wikipedia much.

My thoughts...well, I don't really have any. You probably know better than I do what should be done with the article. I'm glad you're happy to help. I'll read through the sources you turned up when I can snatch a few minutes and see if I can eliminate the citation needed tags created by my removal of the suspect source. Cath folant 19:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great. Maybe we can improve/expand it a little from here between us. I'll take a look too, over the next few days, and try to come up with a plan. Or if anyone else is watching, jump right in. Daicaregos (talk) 20:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Before we go any farther, I have a comment on one of the sources: [1] isn't working right now. If the link rots we will have to find another one. Cath folant 23:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lewis Lewis[edit]

A thorough search of the usual Google links didn't turn up any reliable-looking sources saying Lewis Lewis is Dic Penderyn's cousin (aside from the BBC blog discussed above, which may or may not be taken from us but is certainly a blog of some kind, and I think that's enough to declare it unreliable). I haven't looked in any physical books (yet), though, so I'm just going to leave this here rather than removing the info. There's quite a bit of other uncited info that I'll have to dig up sources for, as well. It's too bad it's taking me over two years to get this properly referenced. I was surprised at how much I'd left undone when I revisited this earlier this month.

Also, a handful of sentences were apparently copied from one article or another on Wales Online, so I suggest keeping an eye out for them. ekips39❦talk 06:21, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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