Talk:Demographics of Toronto

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Growth rate error[edit]

There is an error in the growth rate calculation. If Toronto grew by 4% from 1996 to 2001, the annual rate would be 0.8%, not 1.9%.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.156.142.42 (talk • contribs) on 14:53 April 27, 2006 (UTC)

Comparison with Miami[edit]

I deleted the section about Miami being "mostly hispanic" seeing as how it's diversity index is .6-.77 http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/atlas/censr01-104.pdf Either way, I think citing things like this would be a good idea, so that it doesn't sound as if it was writen by some jingoistic Canadian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.146.32.150 (talk • contribs) .

My diversity index is bigger than yours...

Isn't Miami "mostly Hispanic" (I think I understand the PDF, but it isn't entirely explanatory) or, more precisely, isn't it more a "bicultural" (Hispanic and non-Hispanic white) than a multicultural city? Certainly, I've read about it as a fairly unique example of a really dramatic demographic flip to a new majority (see, for instance Who are we?—a sort of reactionary example); note in Toronto, by some measures, there is no majority.

I definitely agree though, that there should be no hint of a "better than, worse than" involved. Let the facts speak for themselves. Marskell 22:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the cited pdf above, the diversity index is based on "the percentage of times two randomly selected people would differ by race/ethnicity". Therefore, it doesn't dispute the fact in the article that Miami's foreign-born population is mostly hispanic. However, I agree that the fact should be cited before it is reintroduced into the article. Skeezix1000 11:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of citing a statistically irrelevant index like "diversity index", why not look at the stats? Here's the census info for Miami and Miami-Dade County. Let me tabulate the percentages for you:
Miami Miami-Dade Toronto Toronto CMA
White 66.6 76.4 54.1 (?) 62.2
Black or African-American 22.3 20.6 8.3 6.2
Two or more 4.7 1.1 0.8 (?) 2.1
All others 6.4 1.9 32.6 29.3
Hispanic/Latino origin 65.8 60.1 2.2 1.6
Compare this to Toronto and CMA info at Statscan, which I've also tabulated above (note Toronto city data is somewhat incomplete, since it doesn't actually list "white", only minorities). Note that the US census bureau lists Hispanic/Latino in addition to its other data, whereas Statscan lists it as a separate minority. (When adding the numbers above, for US numbers don't count Hispanic, for Canada numbers do count those numbers to get 100% data.) Also note that the Toronto numbers for two or more look suspiciously wrong; that number is likely to be higher than the CMA number, with a corresponding downward adjustment for "white". Mindmatrix 15:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I say "diversity index" is statistically irrelevant for the following reason: consider a population distribution of 45% white, 45% black and 10% other. Randomly selecting two people from this population results in 41.5% being of the same race, and 58.5% from two different groups. However, this group does not have high diversity, it is tri-modal. By the way, on page 5 of the document cited by the anon user, Miami-Dade is one of the few areas in the US with a decreasing diversity index. I don't think much of this stat either. Mindmatrix 15:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good points. Those are helpful comments. I think the issue is whether we can source the claim that Miami's foreign-born population is mostly hispanic, whereas Toronto's is more diverse. The census figures, unless I am missing something, do not get us the whole way there. Perahs if we reword the sentence to read: "Miami ranked first, but its population is approximately two-thirds Hispanic/Latino, whereas Toronto's population is significantly more diverse." The census figures would support that claim. Skeezix1000 15:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Two things

1) You are absolutely right about Miami's immigrant population being mostly Hispanic. I guess I read the sentence wrong originally. Here's two possible cites:

Miami http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:vmoOFF3pS8EJ:www.canadiangeographic.ca/Magazine/JF01/geomap.asp+toronto+immigrants+percent&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

Toronto http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:ge9n865p1-EJ:www.cis.org/articles/1995/florida.html+miami+immigration+%22per+year%22+percent&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6&client=firefox-a

Although an argument can be made that immigration in Toronto is largely Chinese (30%), and is a majority of Asians (well above 80%), t I guess I see a bit more of a problem with grouping distinct groups into "Asian" than into "Hispanic"

2) Diversity index is not "statistically irreverent". This is *the* mathematical definition of diversity. (see wikipedia entry on diversity index). As for someone's example here with 45%/45%/10%: and despite what your institution might tell you, this .58 diversity index is actually a rather diverse index. Just think through all the examples and counterexamples and it will make more sense.

I think quoting foreign born immigration is a rather inferior measure of diversity. First, it only includes immigration (if the entire population is all white and the percentage is low, it doesn't matter what the immigration statistics); second, it's demographic information and not a diversity index. (If 99% are from China and .01% each of 100 countries, this isn't very diverse at all, despite the long list of countries on a census list. Actually this population would have large species richness, but not a high diversity). Regardless, both biologists and US census use diversity index when discussing diversity. And it actually supports the diversity of Toronto over Miami, and makes sense logically whencomparing Miami to a more diverse American city:

Toronto Miami Sacramento
Chinese 0.106 0.0023 0.0477
South Asian 0.103 0.0017 0.0121
Black 0.083 0.2231 0.1547
Filipino 0.035 0.0011 0.0209
Hispanic 0.022 0.64 0.42
West Asian 0.015 0 0
Southeast Asian 0.014 0.0002 0.0152
Korean 0.012 0.0002 0.002
Arab 0.009 0 0
Japanese 0.005 0.0003 0.0163
Other 0.015 0.0542 0.1096
White 0.572 0.07 0.1957
SUM 0.991 0.9931 0.9942
INDEX 0.641477 0.532779 0.745998

Note that the US Census differentiates between notions of race and ethnicity because Hispanics have mixed with many other races in America. So it is very difficult to determine a pure Hispanic from the stats.

I'm using the stats from the Toronto Demographics page, so these stats are perfect, but for the other two, I err on the side of purity over diversity. This is why I assume no Arabs or West Indians (they were not part of the US census) and this is why the number of whites (which are calculated as pure whites) are so low. But feel free to do your own calculation and change the numbers around, you’ll find the numbers are about the same.

Other sources: http://sacramento.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

http://sacramento.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto

jabin1979

Toronto has been named the most ETHNICALLY diverse city in the world by the United Nations. Diversity in general is a hard choice. So I changed "more diverse" to "more ethnically diverse". 49.9% immigrants does not equal all different races.

Source: http://www.utoronto.ca/student.exchange/incoming/student/Toronto.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sega31098 (talk • contribs) 04:20, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

French in Toronto[edit]

The article contradicted itself. It stated that French was the 2nd most spoken language in Toronto. This is not the case, later in the article it was stated that French is only spoken by 1.4% of the population. This puts it well beneath languages such as Italian and Chinese. I took the liberty to correct the statement seeing as it was based on a reference of languages most used at work. French may well be the 2nd most used language at work, but that is likely because of Canadian government services work which must be conducted bilingually, not because French is widely spoken in Toronto. Basser g 06:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Like This[edit]

"The chief ethnicities of the white population of Toronto are 6.5% Canadian (a mixture of English, Scottish, Irish, and French)"

What does this mean? I am not British or French but I am Canadian too. In addition, I thought Native peoples were here first, but even then I am Canadian as well. British or French does not mean Canadian!

Tito A. Martinez —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.112.218 (talk) 23:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Percentage of Jewish People?[edit]

Under the table of ethnic comparisons, it says that Jewish people make up 2.5%, but in the Religion section, it says that Jews make up 4.8% of the population. What's the reason for this discrepancy? Which one is correct? Dorykornfeld 01:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish community organizations in Canada uses a mix of the religious and ethnicity to count the Jewish population. The religion number is used as a base and the number of people who declare a Jewish ethnicity and have no religion is added to the number (Jewish converts to other religions are not counted). Many Jews declare a country of origin (Polish, Russian, etc.) which explains the very high number of "Polish origin" in Forest Hill etc. Docere1 (talk) 02:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tamils?[edit]

I read in other articles that GTA has around 200,000 Tamils mostly of Srilankan origin but the statistics are confusing. What is their actual numbers?

These stats are only for Toronto (2.5 million people), not for the GTA (5.5 million people). Try searching for the GTA article and one of the links will send you to a Statistics Canada website. Blackjays1 10:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic Groups[edit]

I'll be adding data on ethnic groups and restructuring the list (in paragraph form) to reflect the ranking by percent of the total composition. Data will be from: http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/highlights/ethnic/pages/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=CMA&Code=535__&Data=Count&Table=2&StartRec=1&Sort=3&Display=All&CSDFilter=5000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gkmx (talk • contribs) 17:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC) Actually, I'll do this laterGkmx (talk) 17:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beaches-East York, Davenport, Eglinton-Lawrence???[edit]

When I search for B-EY, Davenport or Eg-Law in the NHS it's "Not Found" (apparently suppressed?) yet someone was able to get that data up here. I could only read B-EY because it was linked. Can I get links for these other ridings as well? Docere1 (talk) 02:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Top 20 Ethnic Origins in the Toronto CMA table near the bottom of the Cultural Diversity section[edit]

@Alaney2k: Some of the links in the table link to the nation rather than to the nationality of the people. I have changed some of them to link to the nationality instead of the nation. Can you go through them as well? Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:32, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It looks good. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:22, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone know how to update this to the 2016 data?[edit]

Anyone know how to update this to the 2016 data? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.122.44 (talk • contribs)

2016 data is released slowly. Some 2016 demographic information is not released yet. Once it's released, all you do is to edit the page. Better yet, create an account on Wikipedia. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 13:07, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The 2016 data has been released yesterday for the demographic section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.122.44 (talk • contribs)
@Alaney2k: What do you think? Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:59, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've not worked on this area, but I'm sure the editors who have are probably gearing up to work on the Canadian cities and towns articles. Alaney2k (talk) 12:27, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know how the white population is calculated from the census? is it (not a visible minority) - (aboriginal identity) or is it completely different? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.193.122.44 (talk • contribs)
@Canterbury Tail: @Vaselineeeeeeee: Perhaps you can help? Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:12, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Johnny Au: Yeah, I was looking at this...I've updated the Ethnic origins of people in Canada page, main article Toronto demo section and York Region. This article however is in rough shape, a lot of the info is very hard to follow, and written in large blocks of text which may not even be needed information. Also, most of the tables are tracking info for the GTA, is that our goal, or should we just be looking at Toronto proper? This is Demographics of TORONTO, so I think we should just show it for Toronto, and maybe show another for the GTA if necessary, but I think it can be covered in the Greater Toronto Area demographics section. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 02:25, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you. Keep the article to City of Toronto. I do think you could have some GTA figures for comparison, but this article is busy enough. Alaney2k (talk) 22:35, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looking great so far. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:59, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've updated the Ethnicity and language tables to include 2016 data, and sectioned them for Toronto CMA and City of Toronto. I think that's it for me. The last tables to be updated besides the somewhat confusing text (ridings which may not be needed), are the religion and minority pops. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 01:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Much better. Thank you to everyone who helped! Remember that the work is never finished. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 03:18, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The update is nearing completion. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 03:04, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It says that in 2016, minority races made up a higher percentage than white people?[edit]

According to the 2016 Census, the racial composition of Toronto was: White: 50.2% East Asian: 12.7% (10.8% Chinese, 1.4% Korean, 0.5% Japanese) South Asian: 12.3% Black: 8.5% Southeast Asian: 7.0% (5.1% Filipino) Latin American: 2.8% West Asian: 2.0% Arab: 1.1% Aborginal: 0.7% (0.5% First Nations, 0.2% Metis) Two or more races: 1.5% Other race: 1.3%. Cool879 (talk) 03:09, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic Diversity Section - Change suggestion[edit]

I think the "black" category in this section must be replaced by African, also being possible to divide into african/caribbean or something like that, since black is not an ethnicity, but a color. (eg: we don't refer to latin ethnicity as "brown" or chinese as "yellow"). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:11A3:8300:1C9E:3F98:214D:656 (talk) 15:14, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done We use terms that the census uses. However, this may change when the 2021 census is released. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 15:46, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The 2021 census is released, but still uses Black to refer to those of African or Caribbean descent. We do not stray away from the terms used by the census. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 01:47, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Canadian Census[edit]

It would be great if the article were to be updated using the 2021 Canadian census. I have also added the {{update}} tag with the appropriate parameters to let readers know that the article isn't fully updated yet. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 02:34, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Selection of Pan-Ethnic Groups[edit]

Why does the table showing the visible minority groups have pan-ethnic groups composed of several visible minority groups? Statistics Canada publishes data specific visible minority groups, so on what basis have we decided to display results for pan-ethnic groups selected for this article, and on what basis have these pan-ethnic groups been selected? Noirci (talk) 05:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Full visible minority breakdown (using all groups as per Statistics Canada definition) is also included... see the pie chart here. The pan-ethnic trends table is another reflection of the census data verbatim, with some of the groups organized together on a geographic basis. Van00220 (talk) 01:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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