Talk:Demetrios Palaiologos

Untitled

these were two different persons, they should have both their own articles. Arrigo 10:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

article for Demetrius

Rjecina had produced the following:

After the fall of Constantinople to Mehmed II, the only free province of the Byzantine Empire was the Despotate of Morea, ruled by two brothers of the dead emperor Constantine XI Palaeologus, Thomas and Demetrius Palaeologus. It was never expected that these two surviving sons of Manuel II Palaeologus would ever rule. Only after the deaths of their older brothers Andronicus, despot of Thessalonica, Theodore, despot of Morea, John VIII Palaeologus, Constantine XI, and two brothers in childhood, were they able to claim the throne.

Twenty years before the fall of Constantinople, Demetrius Palaeologus tried for the first time to take power with military help from Hungary. He escaped to that court demanding protection and military help against brothers who wanted to kill him. After that he made peace with his brothers many times and many times again tried to take power with help from another power: the Turks.

When Mehmed II invaded Morea in 1460, Thomas, who had been fighting with Demetrius for the last seven years, did not have enough soldiers to protect the wall on which so much money and time had been spent in the 15th century. The formal reason for the invasion was to help Demetrius, who had asked for Turkish help to restore him to power. Thomas, after hearing of the invasion, escaped with his family to Italy where he was recognized as Byzantine emperor. Demetrius, however, received news from Mehmed II that he was not to rule the country. Demetrius lived in his golden Turkish cage until his death.

Mehmed II conquered the Empire of Trebizond, de facto the last free territory of the ancient Roman state, in the year 1461 (although Mehmed proclaimed himself "Roman Emperor" after capturing Constantinople).

Bibliography

• Joseph von Hammer "Geschichte des Osmanischen Reiches"
• Edward Gibbon "The History of Decline and Fall of Roman Empire"
• "Byzantium's Nightfall ( John VIII )" - translated from the Serbian

Demetrius and Mehmed inheritance

After conquest of Constantinople Mehmed II has declared himself emperor but this can be only legal ( for inheritance right ) if it's possible that Osman ( XIII century ) has not attacked Byzantium, but this has been revolt. First fortress Osman has taken in alliance with Byzantium garnison ( because they have not received wage ) which has revolted and accepted him for ruler. Children and grandchildren of that revolted fortress commander has been ministers in Turkish government in next 200 years.

Claim that daughter of Demetrius has been favorite wife is historical crazy because Turkish rulers has not been having favorite wife for next 100 years and in the end she has finished her life on one greek island and not in Constantinople harem. From that point Mehmed can't be Byzantine heir.rjecina year 2006.

- Um, what? Leecharleswalker (talk) 06:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Demetrios Palaiologos/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Iazyges (talk · contribs) 23:04, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 23:04, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Criteria

GA Criteria
GA Criteria: 1 1.a Y 1.b Y 2 2.a Y 2.b Y 2.c Y 2.d Y 3 3.a Y 3.b Y 4 4.a Y 5 5.a Y 6 6.a Y 6.b Y

• No DAB links Y
• No dead links Y
• No missing citations Y

Prose Suggestions

Please note that almost all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion. Any changes I deem necessary for the article to pass GA standards I will bold.

Infobox

• 1) A daughter of Kantakouzenos Strabomytes 2) "Basilissa" Zoe 3) Theodora Asanina suggest removing the numbers entirely, or else using a 1. 2. 3. system.

Used 1., 2., and 3. The reason I used the numbers here was that without them, "A daughter of Kantakouzenos Strabomytes" (which gets split into two rows) makes it look as if Demetrios had four wives - first "a daughter of Kantakouzenos" and then "Strabomytes", but maybe the numbers are unnecessary, yeah. Ichthyovenator (talk) 05:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Lede

• Demetrios and Thomas were sons of Manuel II Palaiologos, Byzantine emperor, and brothers of the final two emperors John VIII and Constantine XI. suggest Demetrios and Thomas were sons of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos and brothers of the final two emperors John VIII and Constantine XI.
• Demetrios had a complicated relationship with his brothers, who he frequently quarreled with, conflicts which usually originated from Demetrios's wish to establish himself as the most senior of them and claim the imperial throne for himself. suggest Demetrios had a complicated relationship with his brothers, who he frequently quarreled with, usually over the matter of Demetrios's wish to establish himself as the most senior of them and claim the imperial throne for himself
• The Morea already had another despot, Demetrios's younger brother Thomas, and the two were supposed to rule jointly. suggest Constantine XI had already made Thomas, Demetrios's younger brother, Despot of the Morea, and now desired for them to rule jointly.

Done, but replaced "Constantine XI" with "John VIII". Thomas had been Despot of the Morea for over twenty years at this point. Ichthyovenator (talk) 05:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

• eventually led to Mehmed invading and conquering the Morea in 1460 suggest eventually led Mehmed to invade and conquere the Morea in 1460

Early life

• Manuel's younger sons; Constantine, Demetrios (born in 1407) and Thomas, were kept in Constantinople as there weren't many lands left to grant to them. suggest Manuel's younger sons, Constantine, Demetrios (born in 1407), and Thomas, were kept in Constantinople as there was not sufficient land left to grant them.
• Demetrios had been made the despot of the island of Lemnos in 1422 by his father Manuel II, according to the standard practice of making members of the imperial family into despots. Demetrios was not satisfied, however, and refused to live on the island,. delete first part as repetitious, suggest Demetrios was made the despot of the island of Lemnos in 1422 by Manuel; however, he was not satisfied and refused to live on the island,...
• to act in the defense of his collapsing empire, would here explain that the threat of the Ottoman empire was looming, as opposed to later.

Yes, makes sense. Added "threatened by the rapidly expanding Ottoman Empire". Ichthyovenator (talk) 05:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

• he left Constantine, the brother he trusted the most and his favored heir, suggest he left Constantine, his most trusted brother, and favored heir,
• The Council of Florence achieved a union of the churches, but lasted for years, not being concluded until June 1439. suggest While the Council of Florence did achieve a union of the churches, it lasted for several years, concluding in June 1439.

Attempts to become emperor

• By 1442, Demetrios was not in the mood for new appointments and he was instead eyeing the imperial throne. suggest By 1442, Demetrios had no desire for new appointments, instead eyeing the imperial throne.
• portraying himself as the champion of the anti-unionist (those who were against the union of Catholicism and Orthodoxy) cause, suggest portraying himself as the champion of the anti-unionist cause, who opposed the union of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches,
• which suited not only Demetrios himself but also the Turks, declaring war on his brother John VIII. suggest a cause supported by the Turks, declaring war on his brother John VIII.

Despot of the Morea

• Prior to Theodora, Demetrios had been married either once or possibly even twice. suggest Before his marriage to Theodora, Demetrios had been married either once or twice.
• His second wife, possibly identical with the first, is known only as the "basilissa Zoe" and died in March/April 1436 suggest His second wife, possibly the same person as the daughter of Kantakouzenos Strabomytes, is known only as the "basilissa Zoe" and died in March/April 1436
• Mehmed II did not wish to see the despotate pass into the hands of Albanians since he was the suzerain of the current despots and sent an army to quell the rebellion in December 1453. suggest Mehmed II did not wish to see the despotate pass into the hands of Albanians, and out of his control, and sent an army to quell the rebellion in December 1453.
• (including the despotate's nominal capital, Mystras) suggest ,including the despotate's nominal capital, Mystras,
• @Ichthyovenator: That is all my suggestions, passing now. And you are right, Demetrios does suck. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 04:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Iazyges: Thank you for looking through the article! I've implemented all your suggestions (some with minor alterations, I've explained in comments above in that case). And yeah, he really does, doesn't he? Just constant antics to the detriment of his brothers and the empire itself. Ichthyovenator (talk) 05:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Makes you wonder what could've happened if he hadn't been there. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 05:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)