Talk:December 2021 Midwest derecho and tornado outbreak

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On 12 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to December 2021 North American storm complex. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Suggested move[edit]

I think the current page should be moved to a different title, since the current one is rather redundant. A derecho is already a storm complex, and "storm complex" article titles are already used for storms with multiple hazard types, including derechos. I might suggest something along the lines of "Mid-December 2021 North American storm complex," though I'm not set on any particular title. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:20, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine with me - I just moved it to this because I wanted to make it very clear that this was not the tornado outbreak and there was no way for confusion, but I don't care much about where it ends up as long as it doesn't cause confusion. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 22:55, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would advocate for moving it back to the December 2021 Central United States windstorm like I originally titled it. That covers both convective and non-convective wind elements. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 02:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If we go with that, I would suggest "windstorm and tornado outbreak" since that aspect of the system turned out to be quite substantial in terms of the sheer number of tornadoes. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:11, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If we're gonna split them, it's probably best just to go with something like December 2021 Midwest derecho and tornado outbreak then. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 03:11, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was moved. 66.80.252.58 (talk) 19:50, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of GIF[edit]

Could I upload this GIF? This is a radar image of the storm complex and derecho.

However, if this is not efficient, then I can upload a different GIF related to this. Severe storm 28 14:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I’m concerned it’s fine! United States Man (talk) 16:20, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2 extra deaths?[edit]

Should we add the two deaths caused by the 2021 Kansas wildfire outbreak (which would increase the death toll in the info box to 7?) 108.170.65.170 (talk) 23:28, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TropicalAnalystwx13 and TornadoLGS: What do you think? I would say no since this is about the derecho and tornadoes, but I don't really have a preference. United States Man (talk) 00:19, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be fine with including them, since we regularly list deaths from flooding etc. related to tornado outbreaks. My only caveat is that they might be considered indirect deaths since other factors, such as drought, contributed to the fires. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:27, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they should be added to the Kansas windstorm section. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 01:07, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, but the question is whether to add them to the infobox. United States Man (talk) 01:10, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say yes in that case, since the Kansas windstorm is discussed as part of the system. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:02, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say add as indirect to the infobox. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 08:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think it’s safe to add it as indirect then. 108.170.65.170 (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 February 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Colin M (talk) 19:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 2021 Midwest derecho and tornado outbreak → December 2021 North American storm complex – This storm has 4 parts, a winter storm in the west that caused a significant amount of snowfall, a windstorm in the Great Plains killing 3, a derecho further east and a tornado outbreak. The name as is is kind of long and a hit unnatural and doesn’t take into consideration the whole storm. But this new title would. 69.118.232.58 (talk) 20:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support – The proposed title is more concise, while remaining very accurate. When we name our articles, we want them to be as accurate and as concise as possible. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 00:46, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support I agree with Lightanddark200's statement, the article name is a "Wordy" name right now, Making it harder to find via searches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyclonicpot (talk • contribs) 18:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The derecho and tornado outbreak have more importance by far compared to the non-thunderstorm winds and snow. Any tornado outbreak page could be renamed into a 'storm complex' article since those outbreaks are typically coming as part of a bigger system with other impacts. However, they're referred to as tornado outbreak pages because that's the most notable aspect. Same thing here. The NCDC entry likewise lists the event as "Midwest derecho and tornado outbreak." TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 18:45, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose proposed title because it is too broad. It would require disambiguation with Tornado outbreak of December 10–11, 2021. I'm neutral on moving it to a "storm complex" title, but it would have to be more specific than the one proposed. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:50, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support I get that the derecho and tornado outbreak stand out from everything else but I’m not really sure how changing the title will make a huge difference. I would consider it a notable complex but I don’t really support changing the title that much but it would be okay. IBlazeCat (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)iBlazeCat[reply]

Oppose – per TAWX13. United States Man (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

125 tornadoes?[edit]

The SPC has just published this graphic on Twitter indicating that there were actually a total of 125 tornadoes from this outbreak. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any more information. Ionmars10 (talk) 20:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]