Talk:David Baron (Messianic leader)

Messianic leader

He was not a messianic leader. The movement did not even start until the 1960s or 1970s. --Hypoiope (talk) 21:33, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Sources

With the recent additions, this article relies almost entirely on a single source - and that source isn't exactly considered neutral, being published by the very group (HTCI) that Baron founded. There's not all that much that is controversial (at least as far as I can see) right now, but it would be much better to have more sources that are neutral than a single source that is not. ButlerBlog (talk) 21:58, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for flagging this. I am aware that using only one chief source is not ideal, and unfortunately there isn't a lot of readily available material on Baron. That said, I do have a few more sources which I am currently compiling, and will add in due. I just wanted to get the spine of the article finished first. ThePatristicsFan (talk) 12:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I have now added some additional sources, which are also neutral so I think this assuages the reference problem somewhat. If I find any more available sources I will add them in the future, but hopefully for now this will do. ThePatristicsFan (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

A very interesting article, and a good nomination for DYK - and the added sources are great, but the bulk of the article still relies on the HTCI one (and most of the rest each support just one point, sometimes not very central ones). It would be really great if 1-2 more could be found to support some of the basic points. Other than that (and as noted above, it's not that there's any question about most points), a fine addition. SeoR (talk) 13:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Theleekycauldron (talk) 06:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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A photograph of the Jewish-Christian convert David Baron

• ... that the Hebrew-Christian evangelist David Baron travelled to at least nine countries during his missonary journeys? Source: Fromow, George (1943). David Baron and the Hebrew Christian Testimony to Israel. London: Hebrew Christian Testimony to Israel.
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: David Baron is a fascinating figure. Though often labelled a Messianic Jew he rejected that label and sought to retain Jewish distinctiveness from non-Jewish Christianity. Better described as Jewish or Hebrew Christian, he was very well-travelled and a prolific evangelist.

It is a true shame that few people know about him. 5x expanded by ThePatristicsFan (talk). Self-nominated at 17:33, 23 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/David Baron (Messianic leader); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - I can find no evidence that the main cited source (Fromow 1943) exists at all.Issues detailed below, as the publisher and subject of the work seem to be identical. Book probably does exist, though.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - Earwig does say 67.8% copyright violation, but that seems to be just Baron's bibliography.

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - I would AGF, but as noted above, there is no evidence to suggest that the source exists at all. See above.
• Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:24, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

• @AirshipJungleman29: The source turns up in a Google search, eg. Richard Nevell (talk) 15:42, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

  Richard Nevell, I cannot confirm that that is the same source, as the author (George Fromow), the date (1943), the location (London), and the publisher, are not evident in that Amazon listing. Only the title is the same, and it is curiously the same as the publisher, making me think it is a questionable source at the very least. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:54, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

  The source is cited in Darby, Michael R. (2010). The Emergence of the Hebrew Christian Movement in Nineteenth-Century Britain. Brill.. There, Fromow is listed as an editor rather than author of the 1943 work. I don't know why, by the Amazon listing in Italian has information to show that the work was published in 1943, and also lists Fromow as the editor. Richard Nevell (talk) 16:25, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

  Well, that's helpfully cryptic. Still, I do feel that the publisher/title overlap means that we can't really consider the source independent, especially considering its age and the extent to which it's used in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:41, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

• ThePatristicsFan seems to be active – let's see if they can clear this up. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 15:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  @Theleekycauldron: It seems you may have spoke too soon as they haven't been active since June 30. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  @Narutolovehinata5: let's give them until a week after my first ping before closing up shop? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 18:04, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

It's been a week and they haven't returned. Probably time to close. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)