Talk:Czech Fourth Division

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Having done that, and given the other article, we really need to consider the best name for this and 2. Ligy. Is Division the best choice or is League? Should this be renamed to 'Czech Fourth Football...' based on how you answer the previous question? Consensus was to move, so that was done. I don't believe that all of the issues with the proposed names were aired out so if additional changes are needed, they can be done by coming back to WP:RM if decisions remain. If an admin is required to do the moves, a note on my talk page will get me involved to assist if the proposal seems reasonable. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:06, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

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Czech 4. Ligy → Czech Fourth Division – Previous move away from this title based on single source, which does not have an English or even Czech meaning, a descriptive title would be more appropriate and I request this be moved back to the original title over redirect. Cloudz679 19:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support per nominator. The current title does not have any meaning indeed. - Darwinek (talk) 19:58, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
• Comment -- While knowing nothing of the subject, the article title appears to indicate that the correct title is Czech Fourth League, which operates in several divisions. When I saw the nom on WP:RM, I thought this was going to be about an army division. The target is thus misleadingly ambiguous. I assume that Ligy is the Czech for league, which supports me in my view. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:12, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

  The word for league in Czech is liga. Ligy is both the genitive form (meaning "of the league") and the plural ("leagues"). Jafeluv (talk) 17:38, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

• The second league is currently under the name Czech 2. Liga, which is also in mixed-language format and should probably be changed one way or another. The sport will also need to be specified in the title: "Czech second league" or "Czech second division" could also mean the hockey league. Jafeluv (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name per English language source

According to this page [1], the name is the Fourth Division. Cloudz679 11:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe the above source is just making an indicative reference to the fourth tier. This English-language source is directly about the topic and refers to "4. Ligy". Eldumpo (talk) 17:49, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

'ligy' is the plural of 'liga' and in the Czech Republic, liga is only used for the first three tiers of the football pyramid. Therefore its use has no context in the Czech language. 'ligy' has no meaning at all in the English language. As mentioned in the above RM, a descriptive name is likely to be more appropriate. Cloudz679 09:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

As long as English-language sources exist, then what it's called in Czech sources should not matter. The Soccerway site (a reliable source) has determined that 4 Ligy is the best way of referring to this league/level. Just because this is the English wikipedia it does not mean that every foreign term needs translating into English. Eldumpo (talk) 12:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

The point is, that it's not a foreign term. I don't feel soccerway have established this usage in any event. Wikipedia policy in the event of "no established usage in English-language sources" is to "follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about". So that would be divize. But I still believe a descriptive name would be more appropriate, per WP:NDESC. Cloudz679 19:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Soccerway don't need to establish its usage, they use a title that they think is most appropriate. I'm not a fan of making up article names. Anyway, we've both got our views on this and I'm not proposing to move it back, but I wanted to respond to your post above. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 08:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

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