Talk:Cumberland River

Source

This article says the Cumberland River starts in Letcher county and I had heard many times before that it starts in Harlan County and I am not sure which is right.

The river does start in Harlan County. It has three tributaries - the Clover Fork, the Poor Fork, and the Martin's Fork. The Clover Fork and Martin's Fork converge just north of Harlan (the town) and then converge with the Poor Fork in Baxter. Mari 15:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 03:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MariAdkins (talk • contribs) Mari 02:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The River doesn't start in Harlan County. The Poor Fork begins near the Virginia state line at Flat Gap in Letcher County. I am with The Head of Three Rivers Project, named so because the Kentucky, The Big Sandy and The Cumberland all begin in Letcher County.Letcherwater (talk) 17:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

What you state here is incorrect. The Poor Fork does begin in Letcher County. However, the Cumberland River as a whole isn't called such until the Poor Fork meets the Martins/Clover forks in Baxter, in Harlan County. Mari 15:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it isn't called the Cumberland river until the two almost equally sized tributaries converge. But I've understood it to be where Looney Creek, (from Lynch) and the Poor Fork merge. I can however, understand that the naming could occur shortly downstream at the clover fork intersection.

I have canoed this river several times from the first navigable waters from both Lynch and Letcher County side, and I can confidently say that the Poor Fork could hardly be called a river that far upstream as to consider it to be from Letcher county —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.165.5.203 (talk) 06:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The USGS Feature Detail Report places the source of this river at 36.8450885, -83.3237926. If you trust Google Earth, this is close to Harlan Kentucky, practically at the intersection of highways 421 and 38. I believe this puts the source in Harlan County. John Sailor (talk) 17:48, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Despite the fact that the Poor Fork may have its headwaters in Letcher County, it is important to remember that it is one fork of three that compose the Cumberland River. What makes the Poor Fork any more significant than the other two forks in determining the origins of the river? The furthest headwaters of Martins Fork actually extends into Bell County near Hensley Settlement, so by the same logic, Bell County could be considered the source of the headwaters. Clover Fork has its furthest headwaters originating from the creeks of Black Mountain near Holmes Mill, KY; this is well within the borders of Harlan County, so by the same logic Harlan County could be considered the source of the headwaters. This being said, it is important to note that the waters coming from Bell and Letcher Counties are very small creeks that make a very insignificant contributions to the total volume of water flowing in the river by the time the three branches converge in Baxter, KY. The vast majority of these three forks exist within the borders of Harlan County, and most of the volume of water flowing in them comes from dozens of small creeks and tributaries that merge into the three forks within the borders of Harlan County. Finally, we should remember that until the three forks of the Cumberland River meet, that is exactly what they are - forks. Interestingly enough, no waters actually converge at the intersection of 38 and 421 anymore - the Clover Fork of the river was diverted underneath the mountain and joins Martins Fork about 1/2 mile downstream. However, these two forks combine 1/2 mile before merging with Poor Fork at the intersection of 72 and 413 in Baxter, KY. Since they form a larger river before the final merge with Poor Fork, I would tend to give them more importance in the formation of the river. However, the Cumberland River does not begin in ernest until merging with Poor Fork in Baxter, KY, the place that historically has always been known as the beginning of the Cumberland River. (The source of my information is Google Maps and being raised in Harlan, KY.) Lordzordec (talk) 00:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Update: The resolution of this conflict may come in how we interpret the definition of headwaters. The Cumberland River may not be officially called such until the three forks of it come together in Harlan, KY, but one definition of headwaters is "the source furthest from the mouth of the river." The waters that flow out of Letcher County are indeed the furthest reaching source waters, so by that definition, that would make Letcher County the headwater source. The streams that line JB Caudill Rd and Green Valley Dr in Letcher County merge, and shortly after the stream is labeled as "Poor Fork Cumberland River". (Source: Google Maps with "Terrain" option selected, and Wikipedia article on river sources.) Lordzordec (talk) 15:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Further update: After researching the matter and visiting the site in Letcher County, I would conclude that by definition, the headwaters of the Cumberland River are the small stream that originates from the small stream at the Kentucky/Virginia border on HWY 932 near Flat Gap, VA. It is the tributary that is furthest from the mouth of the Cumberland River, and is therefore the source. I have pictures that I will attempt to post. --Lordzordec (talk) 17:14, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Native American Name

This uncited statement is a problem. "The native American name for the Cumberland River was the Warrito." According to whom? To which Native Americans, in which language? Then there is the contradictory statement, "Previous to Walker's trip, the Cumberland River had been called Warioto by Native Americans and Shauvanon by French traders." Is it Warrito or Warioto, and again, in which language? TriNotch 02:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in the area and never heard of this before. Mari 22:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Excellent point. Furthermore, the placement of the statement couldn't be worse, as it destroys the reference relation with the preceding and following sentence. It's obvious someone just slipped the offending statement in there. Here's how it exists now "...flows through southeastern Kentucky before crossing into northern Tennessee, and then curves back up into western Kentucky before draining into the Ohio River at Smithland, Kentucky. The native American name for the Cumberland River was the Warrito. The Cumberland is one of three major Kentucky rivers with headwaters there. The others are the Kentucky River and the Big Sandy River."

And actually, there is no need for the statement in it's current location, for as you say, it's mentioned later in the article. Consequently, I'm removing the horribly placed statement at the beginning. The tribe/language source still needs to be identified and cited. KYJustin 00:04, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

May 2010 Flooding

Major flooding of the Cumberland River occurred on May 2 and May 3, 2010. Here is one citizen journalism source, with good video and links to other sources. N2e (talk) 04:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

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More history

The History section seems rather limited. What about its wider history, including, for example, the great significance of the river in the Civil War? Valetude (talk) 14:02, 25 May 2018 (UTC)