Talk:Cucumis melo

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On 28 January 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Muskmelon to Cucumis melo. The result of the discussion was moved.

Picture of Muskmelon[edit]

I don't think that the picture is that of a muskmelon. See the discussions under the "cantaloupe" article for differnces between musk melons / rock melons and cantaloupes.24.83.178.11 03:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)BeeCier[reply]

Actually I am not even sure anymore after having re-read the aformentioned discussion! It would be nice if someone could confirm the picture for this article.24.83.178.11 03:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)BeeCier[reply]

I can't even tell that it is a picture of a melon, it is so murky. Kdammers 11:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Korean melon[edit]

Cucumis melo var. makuwa (http://efl.htmlplanet.com/korean_food.htm#chate), apparently of the chite group. They are called chameh or chamoh according to a number of Koreans writing in English on Korean fora. Webster's Korean-English Dictionary gives one translation of the word "melon" as 차뫼 ['chamoe'(with the syllable break after the 'a'} according to RR transcription] but does not have an entry for this Korean word. They are some-times also called "Korean melons" among English-speakers in Korea. http://www.invil.org/english/speciality/fruit/melon/contents.jsp?con_no=23005&page_no=1 calls it "Oriental melon" and discusses it at length, including the following: "If investigating the name of the Oriental melon (in Korean, 'chamoe'), 'oe' means cucumber and 'cham' means high quality. This fruit was cultivated from wild species in India, and its cultivation history is quite long. In India and China, the Oriental melon was cultivated before Christ, and the current breeding appeared in the 5th century AD. In Korea, this fruit is believed to have been adopted from China in the Three States period."

It would seem that http://www.invil.org/english/speciality/fruit/melon/contents.jsp?con_no=371731&page_no=1 is referring to the same melon with the name "Boseok Korean melon" [RR would be 부석, which is not in Webster's]. Why www.invil.org has two different pages with different names but with the same or almost the same photos, I cannot guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kdammers (talk • contribs) 11:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The scientific lit. seems pretty thin in terms of common nomenclature: "Taxon: Cucumis melo L. var. makuwa Makino Synonym of Cucumis melo L. Genus: Cucumis subgenus: Melo section: Melo series: Melo Family: Cucurbitaceae Nomen number: 310259 Place of publication: J. Jap. Bot. 5(8):32. 1928 Name verified on: 06-Feb-1996 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 04-Sep-2001 No species priority site assigned." at http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?310259.

How-ever, ENGLISH : Japanese cantaloupe is the name given for Cucumis melo L. (Makuwa Group)

SYNONYM(S) : Cucumis melo L. var. makuwa Makino at http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Cucumis.html (Makuwa is [part of] the Japanese name)Kdammers 11:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Muskmelon v. Cantaloupe[edit]

The article includes the statement, "People use the term "muskmelon" and "cantaloupe" interchangeably. In truth they are the same thing." However, it also lists cateloupes (both European and N. American) as members of types of muskmelon. Wouldn't the statement be as false as saying "Dogs and dalmatians are the same thing"?

Jack Vermicelli 98.243.84.182 (talk) 21:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image in the type section says that it is a cantaloupe from Australia. The official name for such a thing in Australia is Rockmelon. The cantaloupe page makes mention of this but the muskmelon page does not. Spuzzdawg 00:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.242.80 (talk) [reply]

And anything else a fruit shop cares to label it, I opened a discussion at Talk:Cantaloupe#The_common_name. cygnis insignis 16:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Muskmelon is a type of fruit is one of two broad classes of melons, the other being watermelon. The two principal varieties of muskmelon are those with netted skins (including cantaloupe, persian melon and santa claus or christmas melon), and those wit smooth skins (such as casaba, crenshaw and honeydew melon). These are all types of musk melon. So to say muskmelon and cantaloupe are the same thing is to say that cantaloupe and honeydew are the same fruit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.187.201.130 (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the Mid-West, muskmelon is used by lay people to refer to the netted melons and NOT to honeydews. Traditionally, one could buy three types of melons: muskmelon (sometimes also called cantaloupe), watermelon and, less common, honedew. This is the folk taxonomy in that part of the U.S. Kdammers (talk) 09:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently cantaloupe and muskmelon are used interchangably by some people. However, although a cantaloupe is a muskmelon, the term "muskmelon" is actually an umbrella term for both netted and unnetted varieties. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Ed8r (talk) 17:07, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alton Brown has said that muskmelons and cantaloupes are not the same thing. Cantaloupes are not grown commercially in the U.S., and muskmelons are sold as cantaloupes. Melons that have netting are muskmelons, and smooth melons are cantaloupes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.162.43 (talk) 17:10, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tuscan melon?[edit]

The article does not mention the sweeter, stronger flavored variety marketed in the western US as a "Tuscan Melon."

Should information be added?

Ed8r (talk) 17:10, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

Muskmelon is native to Persia (Iran) and adjacent areas on the west and the east. Persia and the trans-Caucasus are believed to be the main center of origin and development, with a secondary center including the northwest provinces of India, also Kashmir and Afghanistan. Although truly wild forms of C. melo have not been found, several related wild species have been noted in those regions.

Muskmelon is so named because of the delighful odor of the ripe fruits. Musk is a Persian word for a kind of perfume; melon is French, from the Latin melopepo, meaning "apple-shaped melon" and derived from Greek words of similar meaning.

 The oldest supposed record of muskmelon goes back to an Egyptian picture of the period around 2400 B.C. In an illustration of funerary offerings of that time appears a fruit that some experts have identified as muskmelon, although others are not so sure.

Columbus Brought Muskmelon Seeds

The Greeks appear to have known the fruit in the 3d century B.C., and in the 1st century after Christ it was definitely described by the Roman philosopher Pliny, who said it was something new in Campania. The Greek physician, Galen, in the 2d century, wrote of its medicinal qualities, and Roman writers of the 3d century gave directions for growing it and preparing it with spices for eating. The Chinese apparently did not know the muskmelon until it was introduced to their country around the beginning of the Christian Era from the regions west of the Himalayas.

Culture of the muskmelon spread westward over the Mediterranean area in the Middle Ages and was apparently common in Spain by the 15th century. Columbus carried seeds of it on his second voyage and had them planted on Isabela Island in 1494. This was doubtless its first culture in the New World. About this same time Charles VIII of France reputedly introduced muskmelons into central and northern Europe from Rome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.5.131 (talk) 14:09, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Cantaloupe[edit]

Seems like a Cucumis melo article would be the best choice, with contents of Cantaloupe merged in. Currently Cucumis melo redirects here.--Theodore Kloba (talk) 18:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Shirouri.JPG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:43, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 January 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Muskmelon → Cucumis melo – This is an article about the species Cucumis melo, but muskmelon only refers to some types of melon. In a narrower sense, a muskmelon is a melon with a netted rind and a musky aroma, namely Cucumis melo Reticulatus Group, a type of cantaloupe. In the broader sense, muskmelon refers to sweet varieties of Cucumis melo such as cantaloupe and honeydew. Therefore, muskmelon can be a page redirected to cantaloupe or Cucumis melo, but it should not be the title of the species page, because, for example, you will never call a chito melon "chito muskmelon", because it has neither a sweet taste/aroma nor a netted rind. Neux-Neux (talk) 19:19, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). No such user (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

tentative support as long as the scope of the page is the species itself. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"All cantaloupes are muskmelons, but not all muskmelons are cantaloupes" so support a name change since it appears the article is about the species and not specifically about muskmelons. Hardyplants (talk) 09:03, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support, with muskmelon as a common name. —Eewilson (talk) 12:16, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per Casliber, namely that the article is about the species. There could also be an article about the cultivar group, which does seem to correspond to the English use of "muskmelon". Peter coxhead (talk) 16:54, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but per a quick Google search it does seem like "Muskmelon" is often used as it is in this article. So there should be discussion of this wherever "muskmelon" redirects to.Somatochlora (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.