Talk:Crimean Goths

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Arian?[edit]

It reads:

While initially Arian Christians like other Gothic peoples...

which seems unlikely for two reasons: if they were, they would have had access to the Gothic alphabet, and have been literate, not illiterate as they were (?), the distance from Moesia (Ulfilas' place) to Crimea is somewhat considerable, considering that Scythia was Hunnic territory and enemy land. The historical sources telling us about Goths seems to be Byzantine, I think "tetraxites" or something, up until the Genoese and Busbecq accounts. ... said: Rursus (^mbork³) 06:45, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Incomplete citations[edit]

A number of short footnotes were added a while ago without the accompanying full citations. I've fixed a few, but there are more that need looking into. Namely: Stearns 1971/1979, Loewe 1869/1896, Kempfer/Kaempfer 1631, Schwarz 1953, and Pallas 1801. Some of the dates are probably typos, which makes it harder to find the right work.

I think Stearns may be MacDonald Stearns, author of Crimean Gothic. Analysis and Etymology of the Corpus, published 1978 (see citations at Crimean Gothic). Kaempfer is likely Engelbert Kaempfer, though he wasn't even alive in 1631. I have a 1951 work by Ernst Schwarz already in the article, but I don't know if the 1953 citation is another work entirely or a typo. Searching Pallas 1801 mostly brings up Peter Simon Pallas, but the most likely work was published 1802/1803; another typo? No idea who Loewe is, but a relevant citation shows up here. clpo13_(talk) 18:49, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: incomplete footnotes for Loewe 1896 and Stearns 1971 also appear at Metropolitanate of Gothia. clpo13_(talk) 18:51, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Crimean Greek ?[edit]

Hello!Just wanting to say that "Crimean Greek" was Pontic Greek that are spoken today in Mariupol anf other villages of Ukraine.Can you correct it or just redirect it to Pontic Greek page ? Kp4816 (talk) 13:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Yantra?"[edit]

The sources cited for the 'yantra' mural in Mangup Kale don't actually refer to the mural itself. While interesting, the veracity of the claim that the yantra should be attested to Scythians from antiquity is questionable. From the research I've done for both English and Russian/Ukrainian sources, I can't find anything to corroborate the Scythian origin of the mural.

Also, to clarify, I'm not disputing the presence of Indo-Iranian scytho-sarmatians on the crimean peninsula in antiquity, (I think there are contemporary sources on that, maybe Herodotus), but I think Mangup Kale, which I think was in later times a Crimean Tatar fortress, may have been built by Goths, who came after the scythians, so the question remains, is the Mangup Yantra done by scythians?

Intro[edit]

Hi! I think before the first sentence "tribes who remained in the lands around the Black Sea" it should be stated that they were immigrants from the north. And "They were the least-known" followed by "Their existence is well attested" is also a bit confusing. All the best Wikirictor 21:26, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is stated that the Goths were Western Germanic. I believe that is not true. The Gothic language belongs to the Eastern Germanic language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LostPast (talk • contribs) 18:48, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More on "Yantra" (addition to the remarks posted above by someone else)[edit]

All the versions of the article headed ‘Crimean Goths’ in Wikipedia (in English, French, German, etc.) caption the photograph Traces archéologiques des Goths de Crimée or the equvalent in other languages. only this one mentions Harfidel, Jews, Khazars, etc. Where is the evidence and in what way is the photo related to the evidence? I see no Jewish tombstone here and can discern no name Harfidel. Could someone please point them out?

The version of “Crimean Goths” last edited on 21 December 2020 has a photo captioned: “The Yantra is an archaeological evidence of the presence of Indo-Scythians/Śaka/Sarmatians on Crimea[1][2] prior to the invasion of the Goths/Herules and Huns (Xiongnu)”

The French version of that article last edited on 1 December 2020 has the same photo captioned “Traces archéologiques des Goths de Crimée. Une inscription de nom propre Harfidel en caractères hébreux trouvé sur une tombe du Ve siècle et des symboles hébraïques montrent qu'une partie des Goths, comme leurs suzerains Khazars, s'étaient convertis au judaïsme et étaient peut-être des Karaïm, indices que les archéologues nazis se sont bien gardés de révéle.”

Where can I find the discussion of each of the photos?

The captions are completely different from each other in content and, it would seem, contradict each other. Is that not undesirable?

Aside from the first sentence in the French caption, the rest (“Une inscription ...”) appears to bear no relationship to the photo. The connection between photo and caption should be made clear.

How do I sign up to see reactions to my comments?S. Valkemirer (talk) 23:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More on incomplete citations[edit]

Here is the full references to the book by Stearns:

Stearns, Jr., MacDonald. 1978. Crimean Gothic: Analysis and Etymology of the Corpus. Saratoga, California. Anma Libri.S. Valkemirer (talk) 23:48, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is the full reference to Loewe 1896:

Loewe, Richard. 1896. Die Reste der Germanen am Schwarzen Meere: Eine ethnologische Untersuchung. Halle. Max Niemeyer.S. Valkemirer (talk) 23:58, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A run-on sentence that creates ambiguity[edit]

The first sentence of the article reads "In the report made by Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq in 1595 of the Crimean Goths, he claims to not be able to determine whether the Germanic peoples of Crimea were Goths or Saxons, certainly the language cannot be directly linked to the well-attested Gothic language."

What comes after the word "Saxons" and the comma is a run-on sentence, which results in an ambiguity: was it de Busbecq who concluded that "the language cannot be directly linked..." or (more likely) researchers in our time who have so concluded?S. Valkemirer (talk) 07:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]