Talk:Contemporary art gallery

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Untitled[edit]

I started this page because contemporary art galleries are different from "art museum - which redirects to art gallery. There are certain aspects of the business and the overall concept of contemporary art galleries that are quite distinct from the concept of galleries in general and from museums in particular. This page also relates strongly to the article contemporary art, which needs a lot of work as well.

If you are interested in editing, please read these other articles and consider where your edit would be most appropriate.

I just started this article, so it needs a lot of work.

I need help with non-commercial business models.

I'd like to compile a short list of art districts. If this list becomes too large, let's start a list page.

Please edit "ruthlessly." Flange P. Vibrator 22:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good idea.[edit]

It's a good idea. Contemporary art galleries are a unique entity, and a very important part of the contemporary art world. Bus stop 05:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of art districts by area name, city and country[edit]

Not sure what's happening with this "discussion", but re: the proposed new article: I'm not convinced there's enough info to develop a full article. So I'd keep it as is for now, but perhaps expand the section so it's not just a list. Chelsea and SoHo may be familiar enough to non-New Yorkers (plus they are now linked), but West Queen West in Toronto? That may need some more info to justify inclusion (and I say that as a Torontonian). Freshacconci | Talk 22:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Source[edit]

czar 10:01, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rename[edit]

There should be an article on the topic "Art gallery" but that title currently redirects to Art museum. Rather than start from scratch, I have requested that this article be renamed, then I will revise the content to cover the more general topic.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 22:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 September 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Contemporary art gallery → Art gallery – Art gallery is currently a redirect to Art museum, an entirely different topic. The requested move is in preparation of revising the content of "Contemporary art gallery" to cover the topic of "Art gallery" in general WriterArtistDC (talk) 22:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). WriterArtistDC (talk) 22:44, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:COMMONNAME. "Art gallery" is the common name for this subject. Just add a hatnote at the top of the article pointing to Art museum. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Initially oppose, as 'Art gallery' also commonly refers to art museums and, at a minimum, art museums should continue to be described and linked in the lead. Will watch the discussion. Contemporary art, which give rise to the present title, pertains to newly-created art, and almost all 'art galleries' as referred to on the page deal in contemporary works. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:41, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarification - I proposed this because it seemed obvious: Art gallery is the generic term for a place to display visual art, so it should not simply redirect to Art museum, a place to display visual fine art for public appreciation of objects of cultural value. The word gallery is ambiguous, since art museums (or the individual rooms inside) are frequently called galleries, but places that sell art are never called museums. The content of the article Art museum reflects this distinction, containing nothing about selling art except the last line in the lead: "Unlike a commercial art gallery, run by an art dealer, the primary purpose of an art museum is not the sale of the items on display." Since Commercial art gallery is a redirect to Art dealer, this is redundant, reflecting the fact that the vast majority of art dealers are gallery owners. Perhaps there were once brokers who (as with houses) connected individual buyers and sellers and called themselves art dealers without maintaining an inventory or gallery, but this has become rare. There should be an article with the topic "places to see art that is for sale". "Art gallery", as noted above, is the common name for that place. The article can begin with the appropriate disambiguation links and statements.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 15:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Oppose - This article name should be changed back to Contemporary art gallery. It should only be changed with consensus...Modernist (talk) 00:14, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Modernist: is this opposition to the change, or the premature change before consensus? I agree with the latter.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • To be clear - I moved the page back to its original title; and I am opposed to the proposed change; primarily because consensus is required...Modernist (talk) 01:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is not clear: Is this a vote to retain the current name? The current name is not appropriate, since there are many galleries that sell works that are not "Contemporary".--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In my opinion - Contemporary art gallery is the appropriate name for this article...Art gallery is too ambiguous...Modernist (talk) 02:36, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • So shall I stop contributing to this article and change "Art gallery" from a redirect to the broader topic I have been researching?.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • WriterArtistDC—in my opinion there could be separate articles on "contemporary art gallery" and "art gallery". Bus stop (talk) 06:37, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It doesn't matter how it is done. But Art gallery shouldn't merely be a redirect to Art museum. "Art gallery" should be its own article. At least in the US we make a distinction between an art gallery and a museum of art, although rooms displaying artwork in museums may be referred to as galleries. I am undecided as to whether or not there should be a separate article on the contemporary art gallery. It clearly is its own entity, distinct from art galleries in general, but as well, it could be a subsection of an article on art galleries in general. Either way, we should not get rid of this pic by David Shankbone. It is awesome. Bus stop (talk) 06:17, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Contemporary art" is also ambiguous, being defined by some as either "any art made by living artists" or "any made since 1950". Others define it as anything avant garde, another moving target. There are also galleries that specialize in the resale of older work such as from the first half of the 20th century.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 12:49, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The member galleries of the ADAA handle art from periods prior to Contemporary, some back to "Old Masters" and many "Modern (1900-1950)". (I also see that the undoing of the premature MOVE made Art gallery a redirect to this article, not Art museum.)--WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:55, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think this discussion could be closed with a consensus to not move. I do not know the guideline regarding changing a title from a redirect to a separate article, but that is my plan with regard to Art gallery. My research has yielded sources for both the history of galleries and present day galleries that deal in non-contemporary art, so I see no conflict.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:37, 24 September 2020 (UTC) Actually, converting a redirect to an article is straightforward.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support a move on the whole Just seen this. One problem is that the national art museums of the US, UK, Italy, Germany and many other countries or cities have "gallery" in their name, so one can't just say "oh, now we call those museums, and galleries are the commercial ones". I suggest Art gallery is set up as a disam page, with links here & to art museum, & maybe a list of major museums including "gallery" in the name. Another problem is that while most commercial galleries sell contemporary art, there are plenty who don't. If this is to cover plain "art gallery" these need to be covered too. Johnbod (talk) 04:00, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am left with the same problem I started with; where to place the results of research I have done on art galleries in general, which show more than just contemporary art, and vastly outnumber the few national institutions founded ~150-200 years ago when art gallery and art museum were synonymous. The sources I find do not use a prefix "contemporary" or "commercial", just art gallery; and there is no confusion.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 05:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Or less than a century ago in the case of the National Gallery of Art in Washington! There may be fewer "gallery" museums (though actually there are rather a lot), but they get vastly more views than commercial galleries. Not all articles are equal. Johnbod (talk) 15:39, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yet the article that covers the topic of all these National Galleries is Art museum, and there is a healthy list of art museums. No one is questioning the ambiguity; I prefer a default target rather than forcing everyone who searches for art gallery to a disambiguation page.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:30, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
How about a hatnote in Art gallery: This page is about galleries selling visual art. For other uses, see Art gallery (disambiguation).--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is also List of national galleries. A disambiguation page might help. Linking articles might help, such as by hat-notes and other means. And the content of an article can allude to some of the difficulties that arise when trying to address the various venues in which art can be publicly found. I'm not the one doing this, so I am reluctant to offer advice, but I think a separate article called "Art gallery" could be justified, depending on its content. Its content could mention, in full sentences, that these various entities exist under the same heading—art gallery—or related headings. I don't know what content WriterArtistDC has in mind but I don't see why it could not be a part of an article that also addresses the various forms of language that allude to related venues. Bus stop (talk) 15:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am drafting an article on the general topic of Art gallery that includes the history of these establishments, which did not suddenly appear as they are today. Both commercial and contemporary are covered as types of art galleries, but so are non-profit, cooperative, and secondary market galleries. The fact is that the unmodified word [gallery] continues to be used in two senses that refer to topics each worthy of their own article; Art museum currently covers one, Art gallery should cover the other. I see no way to prioritize one topic over the other, so hatnotes are the best solution to the problem of disambiguation. I did not see enough content in this article that a section in the general article would not cover, which is the reason I proposed a rename; but if the consensus is otherwise I will place my new content under the appropriate title.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 03:09, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I stared above in my opinion this title - Contemporary art gallery - is totally correct for this page...If someone needs to - then by all means - create a new article - Commercial art galleries or History of Art Galleries whatever...Modernist (talk) 18:12, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:COMMONNAME for all of these is just "art gallery". History of Art Galleries is just silly - there's no such thing. I think we may be lacking some global perspective here. Johnbod (talk) 21:44, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are pros and cons to different arrangements. The specialness of emerging art makes me favor 2 separate articles—one on the "contemporary art gallery" and another article on art galleries in general. That "contemporary art" can be difficult to define or frustrates definition entirely is in my opinion an argument for a separate article—the Contemporary art gallery article—on that elusive subject. Thus, I think the way forward is to have an article on "Art galleries". It would have a brief section on "contemporary art galleries". Bus stop (talk) 01:11, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My draft is here. Please make comments on the talk page rather than editing directly until I move it to the WP: space.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 05:21, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No longer a draft, Art gallery is "live".--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:55, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Closing move proposal and moving forward[edit]

It has not been 7 days, but it is clear that the move proposal can be closed, with Consensus to not move. The guidline is that active participants cannot do this.

I am almost ready to move my draft to the Art gallery page. I do not know if any of those that stated that Contemporary art gallery must remain its own topic is going to improve this article, but I will not. I have wondered instead whether I should self-revert some of the edits made when I assumed that it would expand to cover the more general topic.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 17:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rewriting the lead was obviously needed.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 04:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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