Talk:Catalan independence movement

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Catalan independence movement article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

A news item involving Catalan independence movement was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 17 September 2012.

Wikipedia

Catalonia Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Catalonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Catalonia and Catalonia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CataloniaWikipedia:WikiProject CataloniaTemplate:WikiProject CataloniaCatalonia articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

Spain High‑importance

	Spain portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpainWikipedia:WikiProject SpainTemplate:WikiProject SpainSpain articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics High‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Index

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Babsd001.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:57, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction revisited[edit]

It's 3 years later and this intro is still a mess. There is way too much detail on the events post-2010. MOS:LEADLENGTH says leads shouldn't be longer than 4 paragraphs in general and this is 8. Everything from 'The modern independence movement began in 2010' until after the paragraph on the political parties should be summed up into 1 paragraph, that would take it down to 4. If I get no feedback on the issue I will make the changes. - Dalta (talk) 04:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for raising this again. I've always been conscious that the lead was too long and too detailed, but I've never got round to condensing it. I reverted a radical re-write three years ago because it failed to properly introduce the topic or summarise the article. I am now editing it down, as requested, to four reasonable-length paragraphs: a one-sentence introduction, early history, post-2010 history, and support/opposition among the parties. I am removing both the paragraph about the Estelada and the images of it, because it is not dealt with in the article body. They could maybe be added back to the article body, but I don't know where. Scolaire (talk) 13:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's more concise but I think it is still too long. It's mostly minor stuff like shortening sentences and summarising some details that are now 2 or 3 sentences into 1.

A separate issue is the chronology, the municipal level votes began in 2009, but yet the intro says the movement began in 2010 after the Constitutional Court decision. And also, there needs to be mention of the arrests and the current negotiations. And really, the police action on the day of the 2017 election needs to be referenced too, these are all big events. Also 'modern' isn't the right word for something happening in 2010, 'contemporary' I think is better. I have made a propsal which I will put in now. I'm not expecting it to go unaltered, but I hope you will have productive comments/edits to make. - Dalta (talk) 08:14, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I take your point about chronology, but your edit suggested that the symbolic referendums of 2009–11 and the case before the Constitutional Court were unrelated events, when in fact the first of the referendums were held in anticipation of an unfavourable ruling. I have tweaked it to make this clear while keeping the chronology. The edit also IMO overdid the "shortening", rolling the 2010 protests, the 2014 referendum and the 2015 elections – all major developments – into two short sentences. I've revised that as well, keeping your wording where possible, and keeping it the same length (actually 7 bytes shorter). Scolaire (talk) 18:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits to lead[edit]

Recent edits by Terlines have added some crazy stuff to the lead. This one talks of an independence movement in the town of Alghero to free it from Italy! What are the sources for that, I wonder? Now this edit tells us that Catalonia wants to annex the whole of Occitania as well. Its source is an opinion piece in a small online Madrid newspaper. Even in the article body this would be massive undue weight; its inclusion in the lead is unjustifiable. The sentence on the Catalan Countries has been in the lead for as long as I have been involved with this article, but there has never been anything about it in the article body. I propose to remove it, and the new sentence, unless and until somebody adds substantial, encyclopaedic and properly sourced content to the article body detailing precisely the relationship between the Catalan independence movement and the Catalan (plus or minus the Occitan) Countries. Scolaire (talk) 14:53, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No disccussion afer three days, so I've removed them. Scolaire (talk) 16:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Contacts with Russia and Putin[edit]

The independentistas had contacts with Russia and Putin. This was confirmed by USA and EU. Now the cacalan independentistas are been investigated by european Parlament. No new section for this? The wiki article Seems be only propaganda — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.221.169.249 (talk) 14:33, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is absolutelly no reliable evidence detailing that this is the case. If you are able to find reliable citations to your claims, you are free to make the edit to the article. Lakwat (talk) 16:45, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's unlikely he'll make any edit now, since he was only ever active eight months ago. 2001:BB6:4734:5658:C87F:DB8B:B9BB:AD51 (talk) 14:29, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pardons, and general updates[edit]

I've just updated Trial of Catalonia independence leaders to include the fact they got pardoned and released as well as the pardoned leaders' articles, but can we get someone who has some more information to update the general sitation since then? This was in 2021 and there's scant information since then. Maybe we could look at the Spanish or Catalan Wikipedia. MarkiPoli (talk) 13:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]