Talk:Caffè americano

Preparation Order (resolved?)

this article contradicts itself : paragraph 1 -> a style of coffee prepared by adding espresso to hot water later paragraph -> made by pulling a normal shot of espresso, then adding hot water; unlike a lungo

the order contradicts. according to the latter paragraph, what is described in paragraph one is a lungo.

• No - "lungo" means "long" - the extraction is simply continued longer than normal which gives more volume but starts to extract bitter flavours from the coffee and NO water is added.

There is not sufficient evidence to support the very definitive language here indicating that the water should be added to the coffee, destroying the crema. In all the better cafés care is taken to do the reverse, adding the shot to the hot water, precisely so that it will retain the crema, aroma and flavor of an espresso drink. The article does contradict itself about the preparation order as well.

1. Changed the wording of the opening paragraph to just state that the coffee is diluted with water. This encompasses both abominations referred to. Khavakoz (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

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Gimme_Coffee makes their Americano by adding espresso to hot water. Perhaps the distinction between Americano and Long Black isn't as sharp as it's presented here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.4.89.67 (talk) 21:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• Gimme Coffee says that all their drinks "begin with" a shot of espresso - implying (but I guess not strongly) to me that the water goes in after. In any case with the amount of water they're putting in (8-16 fl oz - up to half a liter) I bet the crema would disappear pretty quickly anyway! (See my reply under "Difference ..." for more) Have you seen them make it espresso on to water?

Name and Origin

It is funny that a coffee style developed in the USA uses a Spanish name. What are the basesyou have to say that this style of coffee was developed in the US. Simply because it contains the name of Americano. Please remember that Americano in Spanish means American and the term in Spanish (and many other Latin languages) refers to all inhabitants of the American Continent (The Americas, America, or what ever you want to call it). Bottom line I believe that the assumption taht the style of coffe was crated in the USA or in Europe is not accurate. I will do more research and post my findings. In the mean time if you do not have more bases for your comment please take it down so you do not mislead people.

Thank you, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sibolivar (talk • contribs) 01:58, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• As per the Espresso article, the popular rumour is that many American GIs and/or tourists in Europe couldn't handle real Italian coffee and needed it to be diluted and result was given an Italian name (seeing as we're talking about Italian-style coffee). Do you think that the Americano may have been created in Latin America? It could also have been developed independently in both Europe and Latin America, of course.

The article explains that the origin of the drink stemming from WWII American GIs, lists it as a false entymology, and then cites a source that states this as a true origin. I'm not sure whether that is the true origin of the drink or not, and the citation only served to muddy the water. Could someone clarify? Ittan (talk) 18:08, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

It is confusing, I'll grant you that. The blog citation is intended as proof that the false etymology exists. With a concrete claim that it came from Spanish and a date, the 1970s, Oxford is also much more credible. Oreo Priest ^talk 12:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Dictionaries such as Oxford base etymological origin on verifiable, printed media. The earliest print source identifying the beverage as "Americano" may have been published in the 70s, but that doesn't mean that the term was not used colloquially prior to the 70s, nor does it prove that the actual beverage did not originate prior to the 70s. I did a quick google search. Every single hit that addresses the origin of the drink echoes the same WWII origin story. I didn't see any sources that identify it as being a false etymology. Unless someone can find a decent reference that clearly debunks the WWII origin story, I am going to remove the bit about "false etymology."Jay†Litman 19:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Before you remove the bit about it being a false etymology, make sure that any source you use to assert that it's real is actually a very reliable one, not a website passing on a story they heard. Oreo Priest ^talk 15:16, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Part two

Che829, you have been pushing the drink as being certainly an Italian invention. This is problematic, because the most reliable source on the page, the Oxford English Dictionary, describes the term as coming from Spanish. While there are other sources that describe it as coming from Italian, these sources are a) not as reliable, and b) certainly not enough to completely override the OED. It is therefore not appropriate to describe the etymology as being certainly Italian, nor to exclude Spanish as a possible language of origin. Oreo Priest ^talk 22:36, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

No, I have not been pushing the drink as being an Italian invention. I just added "Caffè Americano" is linguistically/terminologically Italian origin. Oxford online dictionary (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/) is not the OED (http://www.oed.com/) and is not the only reliable source. Collins Dictionary is also reliable and many other sources describe as "Caffè Americano" not "café americano". This article's title is not "café americano" or simply "Americano" but the most popular Italian spelling "Caffè Americano" (as used by Starbucks http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/espresso/caffe-americano). Che829 (talk) 03:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you continue to accuse me of violating WP:POINT; I have no point to make, I just want this to be as correct as possible. At any rate, I think the current version, where you included both possible origins and translations, is good. Cheers, Oreo Priest ^talk 07:59, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Possible general Italian term for watered down beverages

Note that the Americano cocktail, which is a Milano-Torino (sweet vermouth and Campari) diluted with soda water, is also said to have been named as such during WWI, when doughboys found the local apertivos too intense for their taste. I'm currently working on pinning down more sources for this early history, but it's certainly mentioned by that name by 1934. There appears to be a long history of watering down Northern Italian beverages; the occupying Habsburg soldiers are said to have done it with the wine. Much local love of intensely bitter flavors there, apparently! Also seems quite possible given the warm context of the Maugham quote that his character was drinking an aperitivo not a coffee drink. MetaGrrrl (talk) 22:45, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Multiple mentions of the term in 19th century Italian sources

Just look at it: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Caff%C3%A8+Americano%22&newwindow=1&tbm=bks&source=lnt&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1899

For example: "Noi, poveri gonzi, beviamo dunque una quantità enorme di caffè americano, e ci pare migliore di quello che è realmente, perchè lo crediamo proveniente dall'Arabia!" (1880) "Una lettera di Buenos-Ayres, in data del 25 settembre, ricevuta questa mattina al caffè americano, annunzia che la tranquillità è compiutamente ristabilita in quella capitale e nella repubblica Argentina (...)" (1832) "Eccellente trovammo pure il caffè americano, servitoci da bei giovani mori nel loro costume, ma a dieci soldi la tazza anche quello ! Ah sì, miei cari amici, tutto si paga a questo mondo, e alle Esposizioni specialmente." (1889) --Ritter Hildebrandt (talk) 22:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

References

Pronunciation

Can someone please provide a pronunciation guide for this and other coffee menu items? I'm constantly arguing with people as to whether or not it should be pronounced (am-er-i-CON-oh) or (am-er-i-CAN-oh). Personally I feel the former pronunciation is closer to the original Italian word, but I'd like some validation.

• I don't speak Italian but I doubt the letter 'a' would ever be pronounced as an 'o' as in 'pot' or as an 'a' as in 'cat' (see Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key) in any European language. The only pronunciation I've heard (here in New Zealand) is (ah-me-ri-KARN-oh)

Difference between Caffe Americano and Long Black

Seriously. What's the difference between Caffe Americano and Long Black? This article states that Americano is made by adding shots of espresso to a hot water, which is the same as long black. I though Americano was made by adding hot water to shots of espressos. Unless someone can clarify this, I'm going to merge the two articles together as they are redudant. Stevefis (talk) 20:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

• A long black is one 30ml (1 fl oz) shot (or occasionally a double) pressed onto 30ml (1 fl oz) of hot water (retaining the crema). An Americano (almost? always) has water poured onto an expresso shot destroying the crema. There's also a (large) difference in volume - an Americano is at least a tasse à café (120ml, 4 fl oz) and up to half a litre (500ml, 17 fl oz - see [1]) but this could be made from a single espresso shot with up to 470ml / 16 fl oz (!) of hot water, or a 50:50 mixture of hot water and hugely over-extracted espresso (http://fr.truveo.com/Coffee-How-to-Make-a-Cafe-Americano/id/463412198) which causes bitter chemicals to be extracted (which starts to occur with a lungo also). (In other words an Americano might as well be made by straining warm water through a dirty tea-towel)

Thanks for your edit on the article. The difference between Americano and long black is now clear to me. Stevefis (talk) 18:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Reading the discussion here, it's clear that the current page's formation of "1 to 16oz of hot water" is misleading, because it combines the outer range of the two drinks discussed here and completely glosses over the differences between them. This makes it rather useless. Suggest revising. --anon,.

Article puts way too much emphasis on how an americano is not a long black. Seriously, it's mentioned in like every other sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.10.67 (talk) 17:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

last paragraph of lead

The name is also spelled with varying capitalization and use of diacritics: e.g. Café Américano – a hyperforeignism using the French word for coffee and the Italian word for American, but with an additional incorrect accent - café Americano, cafe americano, etc.

I understand it, basically, until the last bit after the hyphen. This sentence is clumsy IMO. colon, dash, hyphen. Please rewrite. Thanks. ◦◦derekbd◦◦my talk◦◦ 13:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Photo contradicts text

The article text says "Adding water to already sitting espresso annihilates the crema,", yet the photo shows a drink with quite pronounced crema. Seems there is a contradiction here. Dforest (talk) 15:26, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• That's not a crema, that's a light scum of fat adhering to the surface of the watered-down coffee. A proper crema is robust, and you can't see the coffee. Khavakoz (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

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The Maugham reference

The 'Americano' Maugham referred to is a negroni type cocktail. Nothing to do with coffee! That bit needs removing or amending to reflect this.145.130.113.142 (talk) 17:16, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Long black description different to actual page

Under variations it says a Long Black is make by pushing more water through the coffee which brings bitter notes. But the actual wiki page on Long Black actually says that two espresso shots are used, not not water through one shot. These are in contradiction. 109.151.147.81 (talk) 16:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I changed it in the Long black article to a single shot (or double shot) of espresso.Jirka.h23 (talk) 11:37, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 19 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs (talk) 13:56, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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Caffè Americano → Caffè americano – The Italian phrase caffè americano should follow Italian orthography (adjectives derived from proper names are not capitalized), just as we're already doing with Spanish café americano in the same article for the same reason, because these terms are not fully assimilated into English, even though they can be found in some English publications. The ngram evidence [2] strongly suggests that even in English-language sources, this is usually rendered as caffè americano, with a lower-case americano. The lead should be adjusted likewise, though "Americano" (by itself, as used in English) and "American" (being English) would appear to warrant capitalization. I.e., the lead should read Caffè americano (Italian pronunciation: [kafˈfɛ ameriˈkaːno]); Spanish: café americano; lit. 'American coffee'; also known as Americano or American) is ....  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support I am Italian and I completely agree with what User:SMcCandlish wrote. JackkBrown (talk) 03:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.