Talk:Byzas

Greece Mid‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mythology Mid‑importance

	Mythology portal This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comments[edit]

There's something wrong with the following snippet: "Zeus fell in love with Io, the daughter of Inachus, [...]. The King of the Gods temporarily transformed his beloved daughter into a heifer [...]."

Shouldn't the bolded "daughter" be "lover," based on the previous text? --Graffitici 19:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

etymology of Byzas[edit]

I've seen at least one credited linguist (Sorin Paliga, who is associated also with the Urbian theory) deriving Byzas from PIE *beu-/bheu-, "to swell", Byzas meaning "Big" or something, and the English word "big" itself via Norwegian Bugge (a word and a name in Norwegian) in my reference is derived from PIE *beu-/bheu-. The name Byzas is linked in these theories to Thracian forms, and Illyrian Beuzas etc. Alex (talk) 04:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is the Romanian pre-Roman substrate word buză (lip), buze (lips), Albanian buzë...which have all been derived from *beu- ("to swell") by linguistic references. Alex (talk) 05:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is also a Thracian component identified from Thracian toponyms, -Bussa [1], which Olteanu & others conclude meant "water spring, water source", but Olteanu is not sure of the etymology of -Bussa, he tentatively suggests PIE *bheu, "to grow, to be" (it has no agreed upon etymology, and there does not appear to be much literature about it). This next conclusion seems to be original research, but -Bussa may in fact derive from *beu, "to swell out, bubble out", as Old French boter ("to push forth"), Latin bullire ("to bubble"). Alex (talk) 05:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think that such etymologies will ever be more than random speculation. There simply isn't enough 'substance' to the name to say anything conclusive. Sure, we can mention etymologies and attribute them to those suggesting them, but you should not expect anything like a definite answer, it is really anyone's guess. --dab (𒁳) 07:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, if I do add suggested etymologies to Byzas, I will have everything sourced of course, no OR. The other suggested derivation of Byzas from *bhugo- "goat,ram" seems to be based on---nothing? :) I'll check.

Unless the *bhugo- derivation has some compelling evidence, the likely etymologies are:

1) a connection to North Thracian/Moesian -bussa, "spring", perhaps from *beu, "to swell, bubble out" and a connection to those other forms from *beu-, "to swell, bubble out" ?

2) a connection to Greek buzon (derived from buo, "to stuff" from what PIE root?), meaning: 1) packed close together/stuffed/pressed close together; 2)wise (Hesychius gloss; this meaning derived from a head stuffed with knowledge?); 3) gauron de kai mega (Hesychius gloss). However if it's from Greek, why is the name uncommon among ancient Greeks (?) and common among Thracians (?) and a very similar form attested among Illyrians (Beuzas)?

I'll find more info. A Greek derivation would also not illuminate the Naiad's name, Byzia much, and we would be led to believe that Byzas meant "wise" as in the Hesychius gloss, but if so why is the name poorly attested among Greeks. If it is so rare among Greeks, I go for for a Thracian source derived from *beu, "to swell, bubble out". And what linguistic source suggests a Greek derivation? Alex (talk) 07:22, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I want to determine the attestations of Byzas & Byzes in Thracian & Greek personal names. In Duridanov I found the Byzes form, and he mentions the "goat" derivation, but provides no evidence [2]. Alex (talk) 05:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]