Talk:Buzz Aldrin/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

World tour

I clipped a lot of newspaper articles about the world tour, and I thought it would be a waste not to document them somewhere. Also, it is never referred to as the "Great Leap Tour" in anything I have seen so far (the article currently calls it that). Kees08 (Talk) 01:36, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

• State dinner (Aug 13)
• Announcement of tour locations (Sept 29), the tour also started that day
• Crew takes a break in Norway (Oct 12)
• West Germany (Oct 13)
• When in Rome, visit the Pope (Oct 15)
• Iran visit (Oct 26), second citation of same Iran visit (Oct 26)
• India visit, front page and the actual article (Oct 27)
• Bangkok (Oct 28), another one w/ future schedule
• Australia (Nov 1)
• Korea (Nov 3)
• Japan (Nov 4), and another Japan showing that they left on the 5th

@Kees08: It would be quite possible to write a Wikipedia article on the tour. It got huge amounts of press coverage. There are various names used for it, as well as the official designations. The one I see used most often in what I have read about it is 'GIANTSTEP-APOLLO 11 Presidential Goodwill Tour'. See Goodwill tour. Lots has been written about the tour. See also accounts such as the one here. That includes an itinerary for the tour (though any planned itinerary might have changed as the tour progressed):

The itinerary for the "Giantstep Apollo 11" world tour from September 29 to November 5, 1969 included the following stops: Mexico City, Mexico (Sept. 29-30); Bogota, Colombia (Sept. 30-Oct. 1); Brasilia, Brazil (Oct. 1); Buenos Aires, Argentina (Oct. 1-2); Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (Oct. 2-4); Las Palmas, Canary Islands (Oct. 4-6); Madrid, Spain (Oct. 6-8); Paris, France (Oct. 8-9); Amsterdam, Holland (Oct. 9); Brussels, Belgium (Oct. 9-10); Oslo, Norway (Oct. 10-12); Cologne/Bonn and Berlin, Germany (Oct. 12-14); London, England (Oct. 14-15); Rome, Italy (Oct. 15-18); Belgrade, Yugoslavia (Oct. 18-20); Ankara, Turkey (Oct. 20-22); Kinshasa, Zaire (Oct. 22-24); Tehran, Iran (Oct. 24-26); Bombay, India (Oct. 26-27); Dacca, East Pakistan (Oct. 27-28); Bangkok, Thailand (Oct. 28-31); Perth, Australia (Oct. 31); Sydney, Australia (Oct. 31-Nov. 2); Agana, Guam (Nov. 2-3); Seoul, Korea (Nov. 3-4); Tokyo, Japan (Nov. 4-5); Elmendorf, Alaska (Nov. 5); Ottawa and Montreal, Canada (Dec. 2-3).

Apparently Hawaii got skipped (Nixon wanted to go on holiday) and the visits to Canada were done a month later (see the source for details: "about a month after they returned they were sent to Ottawa and Montreal, Canada. Apparently, these stops couldn't logistically fit into either the beginning or the end of the world trip."). Oh, and a visit to Hungary was declined. Not sure why some sources say 37 days (time zones?) or 45 days (including the visit to Canada a month later?) or even 24 countries (including Canada and/or including Guam or the Canary Islands as separate 'countries'?). Carcharoth (talk) 14:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree, I was hoping someone would suggest a new article for this. If I start a draft on it, I will let you know in case you want to help create it. I made Apollo 11 anniversaries and released it to mainspace hoping for collaboration, but that was apparently not a great idea. I will probably finish that article, then make an article on the tour (unless you feel inclined to make it). Those sources you found are very interesting and will make a great addition! Kees08 (Talk) 20:43, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Might not have time to start the article (maybe this weekend?), but would gladly help. Anniversary articles are something I'd like to help with too, if time. I've tried to do that with the WWI anniversaries as well. Carcharoth (talk) 13:08, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Why no mention of Starcraft Boosters Inc/Starbooster/SBI

[1] says it was founded by Buzz in 1996 - and he has related patents for reusable rocket launchers. Reported on at [2] - Rod57 (talk) 12:03, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Why no mention of Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager

"To verify its accuracy and authenticity, the game, is being developed in consultation with Dr. Buzz Aldrin, former U.S. Air Force combat pilot (66 missions in Korea) and NASA astronaut, who took part in the first Moon landing mission and became the second human being to walk on the Moon." Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager (SPM) Road to the Moon SPM On Steam 174.207.35.98 (talk) 03:28, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I can't add it myself, right now, but there are secondary sources available here, here and here if any one else watching this article has the time. The Space.com source says that "[ Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space (which we already mention)] was later remade into "Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager," which is now available on Steam." --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:33, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

What is Buzz?

I know Americans have template for people names: First name / Middle name / Last name, so it makes Edwin his first name, Eugene his middle name and Aldrin his last name. But what is Buzz? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.22.179.69 (talk) 03:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

It's his nickname, as explained in the article: "His nickname, which became his legal first name in 1988, arose as a result of Fay's mispronouncing "brother" as "buzzer", which was then shortened to "Buzz".". Railfan23 (talk) 03:15, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Psalm reading

I took it out, but it looks like someone made a case on it. Perhaps it should be added here or to the Apollo 11 article. Kees08 (Talk) 21:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Even apart from the case reading—which is very interesting content, thank you—this clearly appears to be as a significant Aldrin-associated event/moment of this mission, and suitable for an encyclopedic perspective. We should not avoid including religiously oriented aspects/content, particularly for Aldrin, and so I support adding this back. Do we have a good source or pair of sources? Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.0.28 (talk) 22:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

"at West Point" in the lead

Re: [3][4]

"Already discussed" appears to be incorrect, as the only discussion about "West Point" has pertained to the "Military career" section, not the lead. And even that didn't involve actual discussion per se. But no matter, we'll just call it a normal BRD challenge.

The "at West Point" has been in the sentence for some time as it underwent a series of incremental changes that failed to preserve readability and flow. The current sentence:

Born in Glen Ridge, New Jersey, Aldrin graduated third in his United States Military Academy at West Point class in 1951, with a degree in mechanical engineering.

is unacceptably hard to parse (what is "at West Point class in 1951"?), which is to say poor writing, and my preference for fixing that was to remove "at West Point". While it is important to mention the common name "West Point" at some point, that needn't necessarily be done in the lead and the article already does so below the lead.

But, if there is a better way to fix the poor writing, I don't object. ―Mandruss ☎ 10:52, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

The discussion was here. The problem is that "West Point" is recognised and understood, but "United States Military Academy" is not. (Corrected "class in" to "class of".) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:32, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I understand that problem, and I indicated so above; did you happen to see that? Do you understand the other problem? It remains unacceptably hard to parse (what is "at West Point class of 1951"?). It does not flow like well-written prose. Possible alternative solution: Is class standing necessary for the lead? How about:

Born in Glen Ridge, New Jersey, Aldrin graduated in 1951 from the United States Military Academy at West Point, with a degree in mechanical engineering.

―Mandruss ☎ 03:00, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Sure. That seems fine. I have changed the text accordingly. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 11:02, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Actually, you haven't.[5] ―Mandruss ☎ 03:38, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

LMP

Does anyone know how to go about editing information about Buzz Aldren? Marie10569 (talk) 17:36, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Buzz is credited for being the LMP and he wasn't. It was always suppose to be Armstrong Marie10569 (talk) 17:38, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Aldrin was Lunar Module Pilot. Armstrong was the pilot of the lunar module, which is quite different!. "Lunar Module Pilot" is the title of the crew position, not an actual description of what he did. It's a lousy name, because the Lunar Module Pilot's job is actually not to pilot the lunar module, but there you have it: the three roles were Armstrong, Commander (who commanded); Collins, Command Module Pilot (who piloted the command module); and Aldrin, Lunar Module Pilot (who did not pilot the lunar module).

As far as I know, Alan Bean was the the only Lunar Module Pilot to ever actually pilot a lunar module. Pete Conrad gave him the controls when they were on the other side of the moon. TJRC (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

ff. According to Tales From The Lunar Module Guidance Computer by Don Eyles, Armstrong and Aldrin never switched places during the LM powered descent and landing phase. Armstrong was on the left side of the LM cockpit where the manual controls were, and Aldrin on the right and responsible for working the DSKY (Lunar Module Display and Keyboard Unit), essentially instructing the flight.

Buzz Aldrin is credited (or was tasked) with being the Apollo 11 Lunar Module pilot. A better phrasing is that he was billeted as being the LMP. But that was neither what he was credited for nor what he was tasked with doing. It was simply a great title for someone whose job in every non-contingency case was to assist. Marie10569 (talk) 20:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Lunar Module Pilot was the standard title NASA gave the astronauts on most all Apollo missions. I'm sorry if it confuses you or you do not agree with the designation, but it was intended to designate nothing more nor less than the astronaut who went in the LM with the Commander (Armstrong) to land on the Moon ("a person who flies or is qualified to fly an aircraft or spacecraft", [Merriam Webster]), not in the sense of "one in control of a craft". The astronaut who stayed in the Command Module and did not land on the Moon was similarly designated the Command Module Pilot. JustinTime55 (talk) 20:35, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Punky Brewster

Is there any reason we're not including his appearance on the Punky Brewster episode Accidents Happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleshpeckhamv (talk • contribs) 04:55, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

No reason that I know of. Go ahead, be bold and add it to the filmography table. Just remember to cite a reliable source. Meticulo (talk) 14:14, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2019

Please see the following item in the "Potrayal by others" section:

• The name of the Toy Story character Buzz Lightyear was inspired by Buzz Aldrin."

There are two problems with this item. The source doesn't say that the Lightyear character was "inspired by" Aldrin; it says the name is "in honor of" Aldrin. There's a big difference. This is not a "portrayal" of Aldrin. It's homage to Aldrin. If I was Aldrin I would be insulted that the article suggests that Buzz Lightyear is "portraying" Aldrin. For that reason the item needs to be reworded as follows:

"The name of the Toy Story character Buzz Lightyear was named in honor of Buzz Aldrin."

And since it is not a portrayal it needs to be moved to a different section, preferably to a separate section under "In the media". 75.191.40.148 (talk) 00:56, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

References

Done I think you make good points. JustinTime55 (talk) 00:58, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2019

Please add information about Buzz Aldrins heritage:

”Aldrins paternal grandparents, Karl Johan Aldrin and Anna Nilsdotter, were Swedish immigrants who left Sweden with their children in 1892 and settled in Worcester i Massachusetts where Aldrin’s grandfather worked as a smith.”

Sources:

https://gw.geneanet.org/abrogren?full=on&image=on&lang=en&m=A&marriage=on&n=aldrin&notes=on&nz=brogren&p=edwin+eugene+buzz&pz=carl+magnus+elias&siblings=on&t=T&v=6

http://www.hhogman.se/well-known-swedish-americans.htm 84.55.87.146 (talk) 21:33, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Needs reliable sources. The first one is user-generated and the second is self-published. – Thjarkur (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Engineer as profession in lead sentence

I just read through the article, and it seems that Aldrin only worked very briefly as an engineer. He joined Lockheed Aircraft Corporation after graduating with a PhD in 1963, but then become an astronaut later that same year. Hence, I think it's a bit misleading to label him as an engineer, especially since being an engineer is not why he is notable. I propose changing the lead to:

Buzz Aldrin (/ˈɔːldrɪn/; born Edwin Eugene Aldrin Jr.; January 20, 1930) is an American astronaut and former fighter pilot. Originally trained as an engineer, he joined NASA's Project Gemini, and made three spacewalks as pilot of the 1966 Gemini 12 mission. Aldrin was the Apollo Lunar Module pilot on the 1969 Apollo 11 mission, and he and mission commander Neil Armstrong were the first two humans to land on the Moon.

LK (talk) 07:19, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

First person to hold a religious ceremony on the Moon

Since he was one of the first two people on the Moon, wasn't everything he did on the Moon the first time a person had done it on the Moon? The first steps, the first breath, the first words, etc. The lead should probably explain the relevance or leave it out. Surtsicna (talk) 12:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Lured to the motel?

The Bart Sibrel incident section implies that the conspracy theorist "lured [Aldrin] to a Beverly Hills hotel on the pretext of being interviewed for a Japanese children's television show on the subject of space". However, Sibrel and Aldrin have both disputed this. Sibrel always stated in interviews that Aldrin had indeed given an interview to a Japanese production company before his fateful encounter. His story is backed by Aldrin.

In his Magnificent Desolation book, Aldrin specifically states: "One September morning in 2002, I was in Beverly Hills at the Luxe Hotel, filming a television interview for a Far Eastern TV network, when the interview began going in a direction that I knew was out of bounds. At first I tried to be cordial, adroitly answering the question, assuming that the interviewer would recognize my reluctance to talk about inanity, and bring the focus back to a bona fide space subject. Instead the interviewer began playing a television segment that had aired in the United States on the subject of hoaxes, including a section suggesting that the Apollo 11 moon landing never happened. I was aware of the piece and had been livid when it originally aired. I did not appreciate the interviewer's attempts to lure me into commenting on it. Lisa had accompanied me to the interview following her early morning triathlon training in the Santa Monica Bay, and she immediately recognized that this was a flagrant violation of our willingness to conduct the interview in good faith, so she called a halt to the production. We weren't belligerent, but we did not longer long over our good-byes, either. [...] As we stepped out into the hotel foyer, a large man who looked to be in his mid-thirties approached me, attempting to engage me in conversation. "Hey, Buzz, how are you?" He had his own film crew along, with the camera already rolling to document the encounter. I greeted him briefly, acknowledging his presence and kept moving-standard procedure for life in Hollywood. As Lisa and I walked through the foyer toward the front door of the hotel, however, the man kept getting in my way, peppering me with questions, none of which I answered. [...] the "interviewer" had taken out a very large Bible and was shaking it in my face, his voice becoming more animated. "Will you swear on this Bible that you really walked on the Moon?"" (Emphasis added)

He never mentions the man with the bible by name, but I doubt we need to second guess who he's talking about. Should this section not be updated in light of this information to remove any potentially libelous statements? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.179.17.79 (talk) 11:32, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

References

First two humans?

Armstrong and Aldrin the first humans..... ? What, as opposed to the first donkeys! The word 'human' is only of use when compared to other members of the animal kingdom. For heavens sake! Say it as it is. They were the first MEN … Or is it the case that if and when a woman sets foot on the Moon there will be no reference to the fact of her sex? She will just be another 'human' on the Moon? I somehow doubt it. 31.52.163.22 (talk) 10:01, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

As opposed to robots. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:38, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

As opposed to reptilian lizards. Prins van Oranje 22:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Lizards and robots and donkey's inspired me to just call them 'people', which seems to be holding up. Or, as I just noticed, maybe the first sentence of the section just below this gave my subconscious the idea. Example of a Wikipedia collab. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:11, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Name

@TJRC: Don't you think a footnote would be better at preventing erroneous edits like that? Esszet (talk) 00:42, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
And how is it distracting? Esszet (talk) 00:47, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

No, I don't. His name is quite clear and follows the standard format for Wikipedia biographies. There's no value in a distracting "[a]" in the very first sentence. The page, as is, sets out his name, and his birth name, very clearly without it, and the detail (which is not one of the most important things about Aldrin and does not belong in the lede) is properly addressed in the text of the article.

That being said, that text and the FAQ entry you deleted are the result of a consensus of the editors who have worked on this article over many years. But consensus can change. If you think that consensus has changed or should change, you can continue presenting your case here; if a consensus emerges for that footnote-approach, or deleting that entry from the FAQ, that's what we'll do. TJRC (talk) 01:02, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

No, it isn't completely clear, it's easy to think it's a mistake, otherwise, what would the entry in the FAQ be for? Esszet (talk) 02:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2021

Change: he and mission commander Neil Armstrong were the first two people to land on the Moon to he and mission commander Neil Armstrong were the first two people to step on the moon. Buzz, Neil and Michael were the first people to land on the moon. 72.76.86.234 (talk) 02:13, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Michael Collins didn't land on the moon. He stayed in orbit around it, while Armstrong and Aldrin landed. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:42, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is incorrect, as stated above. Tol | Talk | Contribs 04:12, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

FAQ proposal

Sorry I disappeared for a while, someone I know died, unfortunately. Anyway, to continue on what I was saying above, wouldn't questions 1 and 3 from the FAQ be better off as footnotes? They're much more visible, and it would prevent people like me from "correcting" what's in the article. I'd support leaving question 2, however; it deals with Wiki policy more than anything to do with Aldrin specifically. Esszet (talk) 02:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

The name is very clearly in the article for anyone who reads past the lede: 'His nickname, which became his legal first name in 1988,[5][6] arose as a result of Fay's mispronouncing "brother" as "buzzer", which was then shortened to "Buzz".' Right there in the very first paragraph of the first section "Early life".

We don't need to clutter a featured article with footnotes duplicating information for editors who won't read past the lede. TJRC (talk) 04:05, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

You know what, you're right, we can just add an editor's note (if that's what it's called, the thing that's only visible in edit mode) for his name, then we won't need the entry in the FAQ at all. The one for his birthplace should definitely be included, however; most people won't see it where it is. And stop whining. Esszet (talk) 02:26, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

It's called a "comment." I have no objection to that for both cases. But do not clutter reader text to prevent inattentive editor errors. TJRC (talk) 04:47, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Ugh...there. I actually did check, but I missed it, and then I rather impulsively decided to add a footnote once I found out it was right. I apologize. Esszet (talk) 15:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Most of this edit is fine, apart from adding the footnote about where the hospital's street address is. It's not about Aldrin and would not belong in the article in any event, but that's particularly true for a featured article like this. Featured article status is not easily attained, and we should not take pains to keep that status. It's not an improvement to a biographical article on a person to add details that are not actually about the person. It's a digression, and takes away from its stature, and ultimately its status, as a featured article.

It would be one thing if this was a sparse page, begging for more detail, but it's not. This article is lengthy and well-developed; the situation is not crying out for editors to add any information, even if only tangentially pertinent, just to help flesh out a stub. A factoid about the hospital's address is not pertinent to the subject's biography and doesn't belong.

I get that part of what's motivating you is to provide guidance to editors; but you're doing so by using text that is addressing readers. That's a mistake. The reader-facing text is for readers, not for editors acting as editors. (Editors are, of course, also readers, but the two roles are distinct.) The proper place to give guidance to editors is on the talk page (including its FAQ); and in comments visible only when editing.

There's not that much confusion about Aldrin's birthplace. Once in a while an editor, usually someone from the area where the hospital located, has either changed the birthplace or brought it up on the talk page based on their personal knowledge of the area; that's why it's in the FAQ: so it can be easily handled without a long discussion. But that is not a reason to add reader-facing text about it.

So far, you are the only person seeking to add this information about a hospital location, unrelated to Buzz Aldrin, to a featured article about Buzz Aldrin. Please don't do it unless you have a consensus to do so.

Again, I have no problem with you adding comments to the text; they're mostly harmless. My issue is with adding reader-facing material that is not about the subject to a featured article.

I'm mindful of the danger of bludgeoning the discussion here, so I don't want to keep harping on this; but your edit and discussion above sounds like I haven't really made you understand why this is an issue. I hope this does, and hope to be able to shut up now. Maybe other editors will weigh in.

Also: iff other editors do weigh in, and consider adding the hospital address information to be an improvement, I'm happy to bow to that consensus. But there's no such consensus now, so with respect to that addition, the article goes back to the status quo, what it was before the lone editor calling for it added it. TJRC (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, the entry in the FAQ said "much confusion", so I didn't think it was a few people here and there, I assumed it was a lot of people. If it really is, then no, it doesn't belong there, and it doesn't belong in the FAQ either, an editor's note will suffice. And once again, I do not appreciate the sneering, I'm trying to make constructive edits here, even if my judgment on one attempt was quite poor. Esszet (talk) 23:14, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The FAQ is for Wikipedians on the talk page. These represent issues that have come up time and again. They don't read the archives. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:02, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

OK, what? You're saying it's "time and again", and TJRC is saying it's once in a while, which is it? And I meant something hidden in the article (you know, <!--...-->), people do not read the archives. Esszet (talk) 00:14, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

You keep saying crap like "whining" and "sneering". I'm doing neither. I'm trying to explain to you why I believe your edits are damaging the article. That's what the talk page is for. So either discuss civilly and collaboratively or just shut the hell up. This is becoming tiresome. TJRC (talk) 00:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

You're quite right: they don't read the archives. I don't blame them for that because they can be hard to search. They don't read the inline comments either; I don't know how many times we've reverted edits to Bockscar despite the inline comment. They don't read the article! A lot of questions on talk pages could be resolved if people would just read the article. FAQs have been provided on some high-traffic articles like this and Manhattan Project and do seem to have some effect. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:33, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

OK, first of all, you didn't answer the question, how common is it? I don't care either way, I saw "much confusion" and added it to the article. Esszet (talk) 23:40, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter. That's a complete side issue that has nothing to do with whether it belongs in the article. TJRC (talk) 23:51, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

What? If it's common, then it would help to alleviate reader confusion, now I'm extremely confused. The hospital's location determines Aldrin's place of birth, something that should be stated and, if necessary, clarified right in the article And Hawkeye, if you're not going to read inlines, why would you read an FAQ? Esszet (talk) 01:10, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Occupation

Buzz Aldrin's occupation is listed as "fighter pilot." Doesn't "astronaut" -- an occupation for which he is much better known, and which was a much more important pat of his life -- make more sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6010:210C:4DDC:1F8:6722:E4A0:651E (talk) 19:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Pounds mass

The article now says, "With some difficulty they lifted film and two sample boxes containing 21.55 kilograms (47.5 lb) of lunar surface material to the hatch using a flat cable pulley device." This is misleading to readers because the weight of those rocks was 7.9 pounds in lunar gravity. The boxes each had a mass of 9 kg, 3.3 poundsp. 48, and the film wasn't as heavy as all that. The difficulty in performing the operation was not the weight of the items but rather manipulating the cable (LEC) covered in moon dust, attaching things and keeping them attached. See the transcript [6] from to 04 15 27 26 to 04 15 37 42 to get some idea of the challenges. Now, I'm not one to try to sneak in original research, but it seems like we can do better than just saying they had difficulty with some seemingly-heavy boxes of rocks. -- ke4roh (talk) 20:02, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Congressional Gold Medal Astronauts.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:10, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

First human to urinate on the Moon

The article reads:

but, before ascending the ladder, he was the first human to urinate on the Moon.[91]

Does this really add any value to the article? Feels like high-schooler spam to me. It really detracts from the mention of memorial medallions left by the crew later in the paragraph. I move we delete it.--Yoderj (talk) 15:28, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

It's a point Aldrin has made himself, so I think it's worth retaining. It probably should be restated in a context that makes it clear that this was a tongue-in-cheek dubious "first" that Aldrin himself claimed; as written it sounds like it's in Wikipedia's voice that this has some level of importance, which should not be the case.

I don't get the "spam" comparison. It's not advertising, and it's not added across multiple articles. What's the "spam"? TJRC (talk) 17:22, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I added "as he tells it", does that work? Randy Kryn (talk) 18:12, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2022

Change 1972 to 1992 as the final date of Air Force service in the 4th paragraph of the inro. (or change the start date, but it currently says 1971 to 1972, and 21 years). Or suggest clarifying that he served as the Commandant for only 1 year. Pterodactylvvelociraptor (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

The lede already says started in the Air Force in 1951. Please clarify what you are asking to change. RudolfRed (talk) 05:20, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ––FormalDude talk 10:25, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

The lead says that Aldrin's Air Force service was from 1951 to 1972. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Birthplace

The city that he was born in was Montclair New Jersey not Glen Ridge New Jersey as the article states and if you need a source here is the NASA file on him which has his experience, personal data, and NASA experience and you can read it here; Mozzirella (talk) 17:08, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Also, if I'm wrong don't worry about it and tell me if I'm wrong. Mozzirella (talk) 17:08, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Wait nevermind don't mind this I realized that he technically was born inside of Glen Ridge Mozzirella (talk) 17:14, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Yep, this is listed in the FAQ at the top of this talk page. TJRC (talk) 18:42, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

References

First astronaut to admit they "didn't go" to the moon!

BUZZ Aldrin openly admitted in recent years that they did not go to the moon. Stating "because we didn't go, and the question is why didn't we go?" , while being interviewed on camera for an 8 year old girl. Video available on YouTube for those whom are interested. 199.7.158.235 (talk) 22:01, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Nice try. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-moon-admission/ ––FormalDude talk 22:09, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Name pronunciation

The ipa for his name's pronunciation in the article is /ɔːldrɪn/ yet the correct pronunciation would actually be /ɑːldrɪn/ 84.97.60.191 (talk) 16:05, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

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Buzz Aldrin (born 1930) is an American former astronaut, engineer and fighter pilot. He made three spacewalks as pilot of the 1966 Gemini 12 mission, and was the pilot of the Lunar Module Eagle for Apollo 11. On July 21, 1969, he and Apollo 11 mission commander Neil Armstrong became the first two people to step onto the surface of the Moon. This official NASA portrait, taken in April 1969, depicts Aldrin in a white Apollo space suit in front of a large picture of the Moon, with his helmet resting on a pedestal.

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Photograph credit: NASA; restored by Coffeeandcrumbs

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Last living survivors category

What qualifies him for placement in Category:Last living survivors? I was surprised to notice that he was in this category, and with a quick text search, I couldn't find anything in the article that would qualify him. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 20:32, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Does being the last living crew member of Apollo 11 not count?$chnauzer 20:43, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

He is the oldest but not the last surviving man to have walked on the Moon, since David Scott (Apollo 15), Charles Duke (Apollo 16) and Harrison Schmitt (Apollo 17) are all still alive. Nor is he the oldest living astronaut; that is fellow Gemini and Apollo astronaut Frank Borman. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:18, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

He is still the last surviving member of a particular mission, The Apollo 11, which was my earlier point.$chnauzer 02:45, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I can see the point, there's only one time you could be the first two people on the Moon. The same for Apollo 8, nobody had done that one before. A close call but I think it's a yes from me - kind of like the last survivor of Columbus' first trip in the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria, they would be included even though many more trans-Atlantic trips from Europe occurred (even by Columbus). Randy Kryn (talk) 03:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Infobox "Died" Section

No "Died" section on Aldrin's infobox, just a "Born" part and a reference to his age of death. Someone should add on the "Died" part. ButterCashier (talk) 14:27, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Not needed, his deeds will live forever! Randy Kryn (talk) 15:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

He is still alive, based on a Google search.--agr (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Tense in the lead paragraph

The lead paragraph states "...is an American former astronaut..." can the word "astronaut" be used both as present and past tense? I just wondering if the word "former", is necessary? Food for thought, is all. Jake Jakubowski (Talk) 15:58, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

We use the term in the same way that NASA does [7] The distinction is between retired astronauts and those on active duty. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:54, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2023

Please insert the following as a new paragraph at the end of Awards and Honors:

In 2023 Buzz Aldrin was honorarily promoted to the U.S. Air Force rank of Brigadier General. The ceremony took place on May 5, 2023 (National Astronaut Day) at Space Systems Command, Los Angeles Space Force Base, California, with Lt Gen Michael Guetlein, USSF, Commander of Space Systems Command, presiding.

Reference 1: https://calvert.house.gov/media/press-releases/buzz-aldrin-honorarily-promoted-brigadier-general-request-rep-calvert Reference 2: https://www.ssc.spaceforce.mil/Portals/3/Space%20Systems%20Command%20Hosts%20Ceremony%20Honoring%20Astronaut%20%20Fighter%20Pilot%20Colonel%20Buzz%20Aldrin%27s%20Honorary%20Appointment%20to%20Brigadier%20General.pdf 1775sd (talk) 20:01, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

His honorary rank of brigadier general was added to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:27, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2023

Bryn Thomas played Buzz Aldrin in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Lasthattrick (talk) 15:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:09, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Brigadier general

In response to the above semi-protected edit request, the article was just updated to change Aldrin's rank to "Brigadier general". But the cited source says "Aldrin... will receive an honorary appointment to brigadier general". (italics mine). Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this is just an honor and not an actual promotion (which would be a much more formal thing, requiring, I'm pretty certain, a confirmation by the US Senate).

The headline doesn't make the distinction ("Buzz Aldrin to be promoted to Air Force brigadier general"), but headlines are incorrect summaries a lot of the time.

Unless someone can clarify that he has the actual rank, I think the rank update needs to be reverted, and the "promotion" be listed as one of his honors instead. TJRC (talk) 23:15, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

In the military, an honorary rank is one held with the distinction but not the pay. It is an actual rank, and a form of promotion, but not a substantive rank. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:21, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Here, for example, is a Senate confirmation notification for "Col. David M. Castaneda, to be Brigadier General". TJRC (talk) 23:25, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

"Under Title 10, Section 1563 of the U.S. Code, the Secretary of Defense can authorize an honorary promotion of a former member or retired member of the Armed Forces to any grade not exceeding O-8 when the honorary promotion is proposed by a Member of Congress and the Secretary concerned determines that such a promotion is merited." [8] In this case, the Congressman was Ken Calvert. (O-8 is major general.) Hope this clears things up. I have moved it down into the honours and awards section. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:08, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Excellent find, thank you!. (Just for posterity: the statute cited above is found at 10 U.S.C. § 1563.)

How should Rank be handled in the infobox? "(Hon.)"?TJRC (talk) 00:16, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I see no problem leaving at as brigadier general. The full explanation is in the body of the article (and the footnote). It is not like an honorary doctorate (Buzz has a real one); everybody will call him "general" from now on. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:47, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Other officers who have received honorary promotions include Ellison Onizuka (1986); Benjamin O. Davis Jr. (1998); Husband Kimmel (2001); Walter Short (2001); Chuck Yeager (2004); Bud Day (2016); Charles McGee (2020); and Richard E. Cole (2020). [9] Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2023

Buzz Aldrin appeared in Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny and was played by Bryn Thomas. Filming took place in Glasgow July 2021 Lasthattrick (talk) 08:00, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 08:24, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Hawkeye - hopefully the following will help. All three of us were uncredited despite playing the astronauts in such an iconic scene! There are two references on line plus lots of photos on jeffersonkingactor Instagram account - but I’m not sure if that counts. I do have my Disney contract but will probably get in trouble for sharing for that! there are photos of the filming taking place online as well but that doesn’t reference my name

https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Dial_of_Destiny

http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-063023a-indiana-jones-dial-destiny-apollo-space-history.html

I can send links where photos of us were taken but most are on jeffersonkingactor insta account if that is acceptable?

it was such a brilliant film to be involved in especially as an Indiana jones fan. My brother was an archaeologist because of Indy inspiring him when a child (unfortunalty I lost my brother to cancer in November of last year - you can read one of his eulogy’s here that references my name)

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2022/dec/18/ross-thomas-obituary Lasthattrick (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done My condolences. The CollectSpace link is good enough. Added to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2023

Under portrayed by others can you please add……

Bryn Thomas in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) . Source indianajones.fandom.com and collectspace.com Lasthattrick (talk) 09:01, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Same thing as the other edit request you recently created, see my comment at Talk:Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny#editsemiprotected. Galaxy111 (talk) 10:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

[10]https://vk.com/id138888137 ask Aldrin's relative 176.65.114.85 (talk) 19:47, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

You sent a link to a Russian video site only available to authorized users. I'm sorry, try again. $chnauzer 20:44, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Per the above, I have accepted CollectSpace as a RS. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:09, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead Section bloat

I have to ask, is the fourth paragraph of the lead really necessary? I don't see how the fact that this ended the space race really applies to the biography of Buzz Aldrin in general, or at least isn't important enough to include in the lead beyond him already being one of the first to step foot on the moon. 2600:100E:B025:7A04:0:4E:6022:EB01 (talk) 14:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done Paragraph has been removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! 73.14.102.0 (talk) 23:43, 22 September 2023 (UTC)