Talk:Bonnie Charlie

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Songs

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Discuss Potential Inaccuracy[edit]

Article states that the song is about a generic Scottish soldier. I have believed for many years that this song is actually a lament to Bonnie Prince Charlie (the clue being in the second last verse). Anyone able to confirm one way or the other? --Haruth (talk) 23:26, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you are right - I've moved the page and changed the text to something like the facts - but it still needs a lot of work. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 10:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Latest edits!![edit]

And, by gum, someone's bin and gorn and dunnit!! Well done, in fact.

I've been so bold as to reinstate a mention of the fact that it is NOT a "real" Jacobite song - and I'd love to see an NPOV comment about the fact that the Bonnie one was after all in quest of the English throne, not a Scots one! But there, you can't please everyone, can you. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:23, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fort Henry Guard[edit]

If the fact that the Fort Henry Guard use Bonnie Charlie is insufficiently notable to rate a mention in the article for that organisation - then it is hardly appropriate to mention the "Guards" here! This is a very well known melody that is surely a part of the regular repertoire of most military style bands, especially in the English-speaking world. In this context - really not notable. The guards MIGHT rate a one line mention under "Notable Performances", but even that might be debatable, and would in any case need a citation from a reliable source. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 00:50, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Another attempt has been made to stick this one in - above remarks still reply! --Soundofmusicals (talk) 04:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cleading[edit]

You've stated that the meaning of 'cleading' is escape, but the Scots dictionary gives nothing like that. The normal meaning of cleading is clothing. Both the Scots online dictionary and the OED have nothing even slightly similar that could mean escape.

See http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/cleedin

The dictionary also quotes this line under the entry for 'barely', stating that the meaning is 'bare' there.

http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/barely

Can I ask what the source of your information is? Green Wyvern (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where I got it actually - probably my old mum - although she was half Irish, not Scottish! -Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:38, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a more accurate translation that fits the context and makes sense then by all means substitute it! But "barely" can also mean "just" (as in "barely enough") in "standard" English of course, as well as Scots. Could "cleading" be a euphemism for a particular item of clothing that a lady would not mention (the original poem dates from a time when such sensitivities were common). Perhaps the idea is something like "you got away by the (bare) seat of your pants"? Dictionaries are not always helpful in translating colloquial or figurative language of course. But I suspect we have the right idea, if not a literal translation. Any Scottish editors have a better idea? --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:27, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Or is the image after all the Prince "hiding in the glen" without enough clothing? Somehow it doesn't ring true. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:33, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh dear, on seconds thoughts it rings very true indeed - at the risk of being a very naughty old man, and stereotyping the ladies - I ask you - whose mother, sister, aunt, sweetheart, wife, daughter (even grand daughter and daughter-in-law) hasn't remarked to one that he isn't dressed warmly enough and will catch his death of cold if he doesn't put on something warmer! My only excuse really is that I've thought the line was about close escapes for well over fifty years. Hopefully I've got it right now... --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:38, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right about that. But I've been thinking about it a bit more, and it occurred to me that it may mean 'concealment', in other words that he was barely concealed. See the meaning of 'cleed' under 4. here http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/cleed

'Cleed' can mean 'cover', so cleading may be a variant of that - "you were barely covered/concealed". Does that make sense? It's difficult to know what was originally meant. Green Wyvern (talk) 09:39, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Finally did what I should have done in the first place and followed you to the dictionary. Current note may be taking a sledgehammer to a nut? At least it looks a bit more like something in an encyclopedia. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 22:47, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Theme[edit]

"The song expresses joy in Bonnie Charlie's escape from capture and possible execution, and celebrates the loyalty of his followers and their longing for his return." Is that an accurate description of the theme? It seems to me to be more like a lament that he's gone and a (futile) plea for his return, by those that risked everything for him only for him to abandon them. Iapetus (talk) 07:36, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Read the lyrics carefully - the followers are certainly glad he's "safely away", and we already say they long for his return (although as the lyrics were actually written quite a while after the man was dead "futile" is a bit of an understatement). And there is nothing in the song itself about him abandoning them. I honestly feel we have it about right. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]