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A member of the Guild of Copy Editors, Myrtlegroggins, reviewed a version of this article for copy editing on 9 July 2017. However, a major copy edit was inappropriate at that time because of the issues specified below, or the other tags now found on this article. Once these issues have been addressed, and any related tags have been cleared, please tag the article once again for {{copyedit}}. The Guild welcomes all editors with a good grasp of English. Visit our project page if you are interested in joining! Please address the following issues as well as any other cleanup tags before re-tagging this article with copyedit: Copyedit to fix tortuous syntax for better understanding by readers declined by another editor and reverted in full.
G'day. I hate to discourage people from having a go in various areas of WP, but... I see you had a go at copy-editing Boško Todorović, but without putting too fine a point on it, you need to re-read WP:LEAD. You've deleted quite a bit of information from the lead that is clearly provided and cited in the body. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the body. Your deletion of a bunch of material from the lead was done with an edit summary of "ce: adding detail and improving syntax for readers who are not familiar with the subject" which is misleading at best, and serves to camouflage downright vandalism at worst. Your "input" has been reverted. Given similar comments on your talk page, I suggest you take a break from copyediting until you have familiarised yourself with WP policies and guidelines. Frankly, given you've been here as long as I have, it worries me that you think this is ok. WP relies on competent copy-editors who know our policies and guidelines. Have a better one. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:02, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the problem is, you did not wait until I had finished. Often the lead is best reviewed when the copy edit of the rest of the article is completed. I hope you can look at my changes and see that less convoluted sentences, with one idea per sentence, are easier to understand, especially if you area reader who is not an expert or a scholar in the field. The information in the lead was not understandable if you are a reader new to the subject especially if there is no introduction. Sadly, I see your comments as bullying and so I have moved this discussion from my talk page to the article talk page. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 08:26, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the problem? The entire problem is that you deleted material from the lead, which you had no business doing, and which whitewashed the subject (as reflected in the lead). If you can't see the problem with that, I have no idea how you will get the message. I've reverted your "c/e", and suggest you modify your approach elsewhere. I see similar concerns raised on your talk page, and if you persist, no doubt someone will eventually take it elsewhere to stop it. This article is covered by WP:ARBMAC, and you need to be careful in this area, there are many POV-warriors. Good luck out there. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:39, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Chief, it is not bullying when people have a problem with your work. It is called feedback. Some of it is necessarily not positive, but that's part of life isn't it? Deal with it. In any case, your approach to c/e is problematic. You deleted material from the lead, that was properly cited in the body and was highly relevant to the subject and belonged in the lead. You need to take that on board. If you can't, or won't, you need to take a step back. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:29, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, specifically that, about the lead in a long article - I can take that on board and change the way I ce. You weren't to know that I always go back and ce the ce. Nevertheless, I feel that feedback can be given in a kind and constructive way but often it is given in a mean and unhelpful way. I would never say to another editor what you have said to me today in the way that you said it. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 08:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
First, this is in no way a "long article". It's pretty short actually. Second, copyediting doesn't involve deleting material then adding it back in later. I have never seen that approach in more than five years here and more than 50,000 edits. What you did is something else, like a complete rewrite, which copy editors who don't know the subject area have absolutely no business in engaging in. Fix grammar, sure. Improve individual sentences, ok. But don't delete whole sentences, particular ones in the lead that reflect the body. Again, please take from this what is in it. I don't apologise for being forthright, five years of editing in the Balkans area does that to you, and you could clearly benefit from the feedback. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:08, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
