Talk:Big Iron

Old talk

The song refers to Agua Fria, Arizona. Agua Fria, NM was always in New Mexico Territory, both when New Mexico Territory was laid out east-west (around the time of the Civil War) and when it was laid out north-south (prior to Arizona statehood).

You need to clarify why an Arizona Ranger was in New Mexico chasing Texas Red, or correct your entry. By the way there is an Agua Fria, AZ. http://www.travelpost.com/NA/USA/Arizona/Agua_Fria/3218783 151.191.175.196 17:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)Geoffrey Silverstein

Does anyone know what the term Big Iron refers to specifically? I mean, it's a gun obviously, but does it refer to a specific weapon or type of weapon? 64.129.227.4 (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

The Colt 1873 Single Action Army was called "Big Iron" among other names such as "Peacemaker." It was a popular sidearm of law enforcement agents in the Wild West. Also, is the random mention of New Vegas really warranted? Granted, before I played it, I couldn't say that I had listened to the a hundred times yet, but I had heard of it before. It's a pretty popular song. Zenblend (talk) 21:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Book

See my website at www.BigIronTheBook.com for additional information and to view/print the lyrics of El Paso, Faleena, and Big Iron... I have been licensed and have the copy-rite usage to write an Old West novel named Big Iron (finished out at 388 pages) that is based on three Marty Robbins ballads... El Paso, Faleena, and Big Iron. My wife (a legal secretary for 30 years) and I have done two years of research and have spoken to PHD historians... I can assure you and guarantee you that there is not now, nor has there ever been a "town" of Agua Fria, AZ. The first six words of the ballad 'Big Iron' are... to the "town" of Agua Fria. The name Agua Fria is used in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, but these names are of 'water springs' and a 'ranch' and a 'high school' and a river, and a stage coach rest stop in 1875-1876. But there were no Arizona Rangers in 1875-1876 and a rest stop is not remotely a town. And there is no "town" named Agua Fria anywhere except for New Mexico. And Agua Fria has existed for over 300 years and exists just south, about ten miles, of Santa Fe to this very day. And Agua Fria simply means, 'cold water'.

The 'old west' Arizona rangers only existed from April of 1860 to mid-1861, and then for two months in 1882 from March 8th to May 20th, then from 1901-1909. The Confederacy divided New Mexico territory into north and south, with the southern territory being Arizona. But the Union later divided New Mexico territory into the present day East and West with the Western territory being named Arizona. No less an authority than Marshall Trimble, the official state historian for the state of Arizona has told me there is not now, nor has ever been, an Agua Fria, Arizona. Marshall Trimble's books span 8 pages on Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_16?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=marshall%20trimble&sprefix=marshall+trimble%2Caps%2C320

The reason an Arizona ranger was commissioned to extract an outlaw in New Mexico is that New Mexico and Arizona were the same territory less than 20 years before the 1882 formation of the Arizona rangers and they still considered each other as friends and neighbors. So New Mexico requested an Arizona ranger to extract a feared and deadly outlaw named Texas Red, who was in New Mexico because he had to flee El Paso, Texas for his life after killing a ruthless deputy because of actions against his sister. The division of New Mexico territory into east and west is the one and only bloodless division of any territory or state in US history...

The "Big Iron" is an 1847 Colt Walker .44 caliber handgun, made for rangers, that was the most powerful production handgun in the world from 1847 til 1934 when the .357 magnum was released. It has a 9" round barrel and weighs just over 4 1/2 pounds. And to this day, the 1847 Colt Walker is the most powerful black-powder handgun ever produced.

Jim Varnado Author "Big Iron"

72.198.9.83 (talk) 12:36, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Recent Changes / Edit War

There seems to be a minor edit war going on over "Agua Fria" and some other aspects of the story told in this song. People REALLY want to identify the town more specifically, and that is understandable. The source most recently quoted for these matters is a work of fiction, published by Tate Publishing & Enterprises, which seems to be a "vanity press". IMHO this doesn't qualify as a Reliable Source. I love the song, and I love Marty Robbins' work, so I'm not going to delete the reference right now. But IMHO, editors need to get a better grip on what's acceptable and what isn't, regarding information about this song. We really shouldn't make things up, and we shouldn't cite novels as authoritative sources of information about a song. Lou Sander (talk) 14:38, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the reference is not to the novel, but to the website where authors describe their research in the song based on which the book was written. This source presents reasonable, verifiable arguments, so, fancruft and all, I would consider the source relatively reliable in this context. -M.Altenmann >t 06:05, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

It seems to be self-published original research. See this policy for info on its acceptability. What I see in this source is nothing but creative guesswork. Interesting and reasonable guesswork, but totally independent of the actual source of the song (Marty Robbins, the song's publisher, etc.). No reliable third party publication seems to be involved in any of it. Lou Sander (talk) 08:33, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Of course, it cannot be nothing else but a guesswork. And I rephrased the article text as such. There is plenty of guesswork in historical sciences, when far reaching theories are elaborated basing on 2-3 words on wall inscriptions. Not to say about mind reading and second-guessing the novelists by critics. Yes, I know policies. However we are talking about a fictional world. And the logic is as simple as that: only the single place used to be called "Agua Fria" was ever called town, which is BTW a verifiable fact. And this is described in the article as an opinion, rather than a fact. So IMO, we can cut a little slack here. -M.Altenmann >t 14:37, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

From the other hand it is quite possible that Marty promoted the favorite Agua Fria to the status of "town" in the ballad, or just diddn't knw or didn't care about the facts, we never know, and this possibility was not considered in the reference in question. Therefore lacking peer review, I would see this reference as weak, and added only if some professional critic assigns it some merit. But I will not delete this ref myself now, since, I've already had my share of deleting "Agua Fria, NM" in this article history :-) -M.Altenmann >t 15:27, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I, too, am determined not to throw cold water ;-) on this matter by further editing the article. At the same time, self-published original research is still original research, no matter how well or poorly it is conducted. BTW, I'm not real excited about the unreferenced mention of the other song. Lou Sander (talk) 17:22, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

The Real "Big Iron"

So the article states the actual Big Iron is a Colt Single Action with a 9 inch Marlin barrel and Colt 1860 backstrap, but the citation never states this or any aforementioned details and instead states the Big Iron was Andy Anderson's favorite personal competition gun which was a 7 inch Colt Single Action in .44 Special. So I'm wondering where these details came from as I've found these in no source beyond this article itself. Thegunkid (talk) 08:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

I have corresponded with Bob Arganbright, author of the book the aforementioned citation is an excerpt from. The "Big Iron" mentioned in the spaghettiwesternreplicas.com article/excerpt is not the Big Iron which inspired the song, but rather is the name Andy Anderson gave to the firearm described in the article/excerpt. I would not have discovered this, however, had the citation been removed, as it was a crucial starting point for my research into the provenance of the gun that inspired the song; the book "The Fastest Guns Alive: The Story of Western Fast Draw" has been out of print since its initial publication run in 1978 and there are no eBooks of it available; furthermore, it is only listed in 3 libraries on WorldCat. The article text describing the gun seems to rely on this forum post, which is partially correct; Mr. Arganbright provided other details on the firearm, though I am withholding those details until I have confirmation from him it is OK to update this page. KniteWulf (talk) 22:18, 3 December 2019 (UTC)