Talk:Benny Urquidez

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Untitled[edit]

There is dispute as to whether or not Benny Urquidez is undefeated as he was defeated under Thai rules by I believe two fighters in Thailand. I will post the videos when I find them

The following page says he had a draw against Nalongleng and a decision loss against Bayud: [1] (with images) Shawnc 00:31, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reference [1] is really not a credible source. For example, the fight with "Bayud" is actually the same fight as the fight with Prayoud Sittiboonlert (Tokyo, August 1978). The source claims these were two different fights with two different outcomes. I have replaced with data from sanctioning organizations for which the no-contest ruling holds. When I get the chance I will add a list of all Urquidez' fights. Mike Miles, a top spokesman for Muay Thai, discusses the Narongnoi and Sittiboonlert fights on his website. -- Jcandy 09:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heyyy! Great work! I've had this page earmarked for a substantial rewrite for quite a while now, but this is way beyond anything I had planned. Well researched and well written, good job. -- DeLarge 16:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted text in "Controversial Fight Decisions" to its original form. Someone added the sentences "The Thai fighter dominted Benny with knees, a technique he was not accustomed to, especially in the second round. Benny's corner threw in the towel at the end of the second round, and video evidence shows the Thai fighter's hand raised in victory." I note that, recently, a short video clip of the fight has surfaced on the web. It shows a few frames of Benny holding a towel at the end of the fight. It does not show his corner throw in a towel. In fact, in the video, he looks amicable and undamaged after the fight. The video evidence also shows the Thai's corner men, not an official, raising his (Sittiboonlert's) hand. So, I have removed the material on the grounds that it is not properly sourced. -- Jcandy 02:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the recently-added section discussing the "Gracie Controversy". I have heard both sides of this story, and until someone can come up with believable sources and some level of corroboration, these sorts of urban legends don't belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia must strive to list only the facts, not rumors, gossip, heresay, etc. -- Jcandy 01:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I took out the link to *http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html Benny The Jet Defeated? on the grounds that although its hard to acertain the validity of the cite in question the whole page is riddled with biased and misinformed statements (such as the towel throw in the muay thai fight and citing Bas Rutten's striking skills as comeing from muay thai when he himself says they are kyokushin. Moreover it contains quotes from martial artists to give the appearance of truth when some of them are wrestlers with little striking ability remarking on muay thai)- Joe S 2-19-07 8:17 PM

Excellent. I strongly agree with this edit and the justification. -- Jcandy 19:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Jet has always been adverstised as undefeated. What makes you believe he lost?Ididnttab (talk) 16:23, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How can it matter how or if he was defeated if he only agreed to an exhibition match? If they changed the rules he agreed to after the fact, that automatically invalidates the match for any professional purpose regardless of anything else. It also ignores whether he was ready to fight - whether he had been able to train properly in advance, which is a prime reason someone would insist on no judgement. If the part about changing the rules is true, it cannot be legitimately counted as a loss. -Advocate@gmail — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.196.168 (talk) 13:04, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

missing info[edit]

he used to have a school in california. Jet's Gym 6247 Laurel Canyon Boulevard North Hollywood CA USA Phone: 818-766-0461

Also, has siblings who were/are also into martial arts.

yes, his siblings were also into martial arts in one for or another as was his wife, brother-in-law and sister-in-law I believe. it's quite a family affair. I'll see what I can find on that. His wife's name is Sarah. Urquidez has also worked as a stunt coordinator and trainer on some films. When I met him first, he had just finished training Brian Denehy (sp?) for Diggstown. I believe his school is still open. Oddly enough, I once worked with his nephew and recoginzed him as such due to the remarkable family resemblence. Same eyes, same smile! LiPollis 09:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial fight decisions, Other record manipulations versus STAR ring records[edit]

Between 1980-1989, I ran the independent STAR (Standardized Tournaments And Ratings) System World Ratings for Professional Kickboxing. (Here's my list of credits and my collaborator John Corcoran's abridged list of credits). The STAR ratings were syndicated in some 15 newsstand magazines around the world and were recognized as the official ratings source for both the WKA and KICK. Besides having access to ring officials and fighters, I also received the actual scorecards from many title bouts. As such, for that era, I possess records and rulings not readily available elsewhere. I have presently built a website to publish the STAR ring records for many major kickboxing champions at STAR System Kickboxing. The STAR records should be able to clarify the occasional controversy for many champions.

For example, the STAR System distinguished between kickboxing and Muay Thai. The former features striking without holding, the latter features striking while holding. Also, Muay Thai is judged based on Muay Thai techniques, whereas kickboxing is judged based on the international standard for "effectiveness". Those distinctions make them different sports. As regards Benny Urquidez, the STAR ratings credited him as undefeated in kickboxing only.

Under Controversial fight decisions, the entry cites my compilation of Urquidez' record, as Chief Administrator of the STAR kickboxing ratings, in the book: Urquidez, Benny (1995). King of The Ring, Pro Action Publishing, Los Angeles, CA. ISBN 0-9615126-4-4, p. 318. While it is true that I provided Urquidez' manager with the STAR compilation of his record, the published version has been simplified and contains notes that do not come from me or from the STAR records. This book was published in 1995; I only saw a copy of this chapter for the first time this afternoon (May 5, 2011). Here is the link to the complete STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record for Benny Urquidez.

Paul Maslak (talk) 04:18, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the passage quoted immediately below on the basis of speculative Original Research.
Removed passage: However, recent research has come up with new data which casts a shadow on Urquidez's "undefeated" record. In the November 1984 issue of Official Karate Magazine, on page 45, Paul Maslak in his STAR System Ratings (for March 1984) lists Urquidez as the Star System World Super-Lightweight Champion with a record of 56 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw, with 47 wins by knockout, and 14 wins by kick-knockout. Almost a year later in the September 1985 issue of Official Karate (page 44), Urquidez's record is still listed as 56-1-1. In an article for Inside Karate Magazine, Urquidez's record up to November 1985 was listed as 75-0-2, 47 KO, 14 KKO (page 25).
Reason for removal: These three sentences are based on a factual misunderstanding of material I authored. The STAR System ratings removed the Billye Jackson loss from Urquidez' record in response to an official transmutation of that outcome by the World Kickboxing Association (WKA) five years after the event. The Inside Karate magazine article transparently inverted the digits 7 and 5. The correct number was 57 wins, not 75 wins. Urquidez's record shows correctly everywhere else mentioned in contemporaneous martial arts media.
Paul Maslak (talk) 18:38, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regular Wikipedia editors may wish to review the enumerated edits below. As indicated, I modified several sentences and removed paragraphs that violate Wikipedia policies concerning Original Research and Neutral POV:

1. Removed header: Other Record Manipulations

Reason: Unnecessary header for material that should be incorporated under Controversial fight decisions. Further, the term record manipulations is defamatory to Urquidez, potentially libelous, and violates Wikipedia's neutral POV standard.

2. Removed paragraphs: Urquidez has faced controversy over apparent manipulation of his actual fight record and over accounts of his fights.

The first such allegation arose over claims made after a scheduled fight against Japanese champion Kunimatsu Okao. It has been maintained in various promotional materials since that, "the former undefeated All Japan Champion Kunimatsu Okao came out of retirement to challenge Urquidez to avenge the loss of Suzuki...". However, in Japan, it was widely known that Okao was not undefeated. Okao's record at the time was 57 wins, 9 losses, 13 draws. Additionally, while Okao was indeed set to be Urquidez's opponent, he withdrew because of injuries suffered while training. Therefore, Katsuyuki Suzuki, then No.2 for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation's lightweight rating, stepped into the ring as a last minute substitute.

Reason: Outside of this unreferenced mention (and websites that cite this unreferenced Wikipedia mention), I have never read anything in print from a reputable source that alleges Urquidez manipulated his fight record or accounts of his fights. Urquidez is not responsible for promotional materials surrounding his fights. Without citing specific promotional materials, it is impossible to comprehend this Wikipedian's narrative. At the time of this bout, Okao was undefeated as a champion. This discussion is speculative at best.

3. Removed and reworked sentences: According to his autobiography, Urquidez admitted that he could not set the pace of the fight because he was caught off-guard by Onuki’s style. Urquidez expected leg kicks, instead, Onuki assaulted Urquidez with a barrage of high–kicking head attacks. Eventually, Urquidez completed a tactically dangerous and illegal shoulder throw, due, apparently, to his overwhelming frustration.

Reason: This editor did not provide a specific reference citation to Urquidez' autobiography. When I interviewed Urquidez in 1982, he told me it was Thai fighter Sanun Plysoolsup, whom he fought in 1975 for the World Series of the Martial Arts, whose style caught him off-guard. Urquidez did not count Onuki among his toughest opponents. Although shoulder throws were illegal in Japan under muay Thai rules because they interfered with clinch-fighting, for this match, clinch-fighting was prohibited and throws were permitted under the contract.

4. Removed paragraph: Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury. For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.

Reason: This entire paragraph constitutes speculation with a clear bias. Rematches for professional fighters frequently fall apart for many reasons, usually because of compensation, promotional or television broadcast obstacles. Characterizing Urquidez' reaction to this bout as shocked is fanciful. Also, as former Chief Administrator of the STAR System, I can verify that neither STAR nor the WKA turned the Sittiboonlert fight into a no-contest. We both regarded this bout as muay Thai and, therefore, part of a different sport ... same treatment we gave to boxing and wrestling. These mentions of STAR and WKA rulings are both unreferenced and untrue.

5. Removed sentences: However, Urquidez has neither listed the bout as an exhibition nor listed it as a draw. He has instead consistently listed the fight as a decision win.

Reason: These statements are not supported by the cited reference. Urquidez listed his STAR ring record, an independent source.

Paul Maslak (talk) 17:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube links[edit]

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 04:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Draw[edit]

One of these fights should have been drawn...at least. http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/muay.html what happened

This link goes nowhere. Please specify which bouts you are talking about.
Paul Maslak (talk) 21:47, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name?[edit]

So his real first name is actually Benny- not Benjamin, which is what Benny is often short for? -Toptomcat 02:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Change from "Kempo" to "Kenpo"[edit]

I made the change of spelling of Benny's martial art style from "Kempo" to "Kenpo". The reason for the change is because of his instructor, Bill Ryusaki. Bill Ryusaki is an instructor of the Ed Parker school of Kenpo. Kenpo in this spelling separates it from Kempo, which is the traditional Chinese/Japanese/Okinawan martial art. Kenpo in this spelling denotes the modern, American-developed/based martial art.

The words Kempo and Kenpo are interchangeable as they are the same word. But, in the martial arts world, to distinguish between traditional styles form the modern styles, the Kempo spelling is used for the former and the Kenpo spelling for the latter.

Rayghost (talk) 07:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese reference citations[edit]

Can anyone provide Japanese translations for the below articles referenced in this entry? They are not available online for use with Google translator:

1) BAB Japan. The Dave Cater Interview. 格闘技通信No.9 Kakutougi Tsuushin ("Martial Arts Network No.9"). August 1, 1987.Japan
2) 斉藤和紀 Saito, Kazunori. ４・２４東京ドームで再び ベニー・ユキーデ、続怪鳥伝説幕開けThe Jet of Benny Urquidez Flies Once Again At Tokyo Dome : The New Beginning of the Continuing Legend. 格闘技通信Kakutougi Tsuushin("Martial Arts Network"). July 1, 1989:36.Japan
3) 怪鳥ユキーデ遂に散る！(Benny The Jet Finally Shot Down!). ゴング ("Gong"). October 1, 1978:40.Japan

In the case of reference 1), I contacted Dave Cater directly and he does not endorse the information attributed to him. For reference 2), no-decision professional competitive bouts (without judges) are very unusual in the modern era and have not been seen very much since about 1930. The information attributed to this source does not make sense. For reference 3), I just want to read the full account. Paul Maslak (talk) 05:31, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No offence, but I feel what were reported for the STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record Mr. Maslak mentioned has some errors. Firstly, in many of the mixed-rules bouts between the American full-contact karate fighters and Japanese kickboxers for the All-Japan Kickboxing Federation, the use of throws were not allowed. If one has a chance to watch the WKA Kick Boxing Classics Video of Benny Urquidez and Katsuyuki Suzuki, the voice over narration of Mr. Howard Hanson, then the president of the World Karate Association, clearly explained the throws were illegal for the mixed-rules bouts. Therefore, there was no secret about the no-contest decision for the first Urquidez/Onuki bout. For that reason, Shinobu Onuki was given another chance to face Mr.Urquidez in the ring.

As for the Urquidez/Sittiboonlert fight, the rules of the bout was not that of muay thai bout. The rules were very similar to what Mr. Urquidez was becoming accustomed to. In fact, the rules of the particular bout did not allow the use of elbows. It does not matter what sanctioning body Mr. Urquidez fought. It was his decision to fight for the Shin-Kakutojutsu organization, and it was his decision to take the particular fight, and lost. Many Western kickboxers of those days fought under different set of rules and won some and lost some. But the majority of them never hide the fact that they lost. Don The Dragon Wilson, for example, was invited to fight in Bangkok, and was forced to drop some 8 pounds hours before the fight, and lost the decision. Still, he aknowledges the loss and makes no excuse. Why can't Mr. Urquidez do the same?

Legkicker01 (talk) 08:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Legkicker01, so glad finally to hear from you... Can you provide English translations for the above-mentioned Japanese sources?
As regards the first Urquidez-Onuki bout, WKA President Howard Hanson showed me the actual "mix-match" fight contract for that bout. Throws were NOT excluded. What Hanson said on the videotape referred to the Japanese ruling at the time. He did not agree with that ruling and said so privately and publicly many times. That's also why Mr. Hanson ordered the WKA executive committee review that transmuted the outcome of that bout to a TKO victory for Urquidez upon the merger of the AJKBA with the WKA in October 1981. Personally, because it was a title bout, I thought the final disposition should have been a technical draw. However, as the WKA records keeper in that era, I am honor-bound to report the official ruling of the WKA. Mr. Urquidez is well within his rights to show that official outcome on his ring record.
As for the Urquidez-Sittiboonlert bout, both the WKA and STAR regarded it as a muay Thai bout because holding-and-striking was permitted, not because knees or elbows were or were not allowed. "Masterful use of Thai clinch-fighting" is the hallmark of such competition. The WKA viewed videotapes of that bout before making its determination to avoid any mistake. The WKA often sanctioned bouts that allowed knees and elbows in Netherlands, Hong Kong and elsewhere. That was a regional rule option. Striking-and-holding, however, was strictly forbidden in world-rated contender bouts. Therefore, Urquidez was not required to carry a muay Thai loss on his kickboxing record. His authenticated STAR record does, in fact, mention that bout as a muay Thai loss. Regardless, I will ask Benny about this fight again when I interview him next week and I will put his reply to your question on your Talk page.
Don Wilson specifically insisted that his Bangkok loss should show on his kickboxing record because he felt he should have knocked out Samart despite the less-than-reputable tactics of the local promoter. Frankly, I thought Don should have removed that loss. Had a promoter conducted himself in that manner in most Western countries, he would have been shut down by the government and possibly subjected to prosecution. However, that bout never factored into Wilson's STAR ranking or his status in the sport of kickboxing. Showing it on his record was The Dragon's choice. Don's authenticated STAR ring record regards it precisely the same as the Sittiboonlert bout on Urquidez's STAR record. By the way, I only became motivated to address the inaccuracies in Mr. Urquidez's Wikipedia entry when Don Wilson and his brother both alerted me to the problem.
Paul Maslak (talk) 07:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please, let's not start discussing the actions of editors and focus on the content. What we need here is access to the sources as best we can. Legkicker01, can you provide some translations for the sources Paul Maslak has asked for? For a start, I think just the parts of the source that supports the statements in the article, but also, if there is any detail about Urquidez's views, that would be very helpful. And Paul Maslak, can you provide a source reference for Hanson's views of the WKA executive review of the bout? Please remember, sources do not have to be available on line, but we do have to have enough information to try to verify the source. For example, a TV interview can be used, but we have to have the title, date of showing, where it was shown and any other details that could help someone verify the information. Also, this is a biography of a living person, so we need to be particularly careful with how we phrase things and the sources we use. We need to get it right, and if the sources conflict, we need to accurately reflect that. --Nuujinn (talk) 09:04, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nuujinn, thank you for your words of reason: The official WKA transmutation of the Onuki decision was published in the WKA and STAR ratings as part of Urquidez's composite ring record beginning in 1981 and thereafter. I can provide 8 years of published references. Howard Hanson is gone. But I may be able to locate his official executed WKA order and post it on the STAR website. I'm out of town tomorrow. When I return I'll also look for other more specific published sources. Onuki was not considered one of Urquidez's tougher opponents, so he was not mentioned very often by Americans in print.
My biggest objection to Legkicker01's reversals concerns the Sittiboonlert bout. My comment #4 above speaks clearly as to why I regard his narrative as speculative at best. I am a living person. This paragraph alleges that I did something as administrator of the STAR System ratings that I did not do. It also hypothesizes about Mr. Urquidez's motives, actions and opinions in a manner that cannot be substantiated. Further, it completely ignores the fact that the WKA and STAR regarded this bout as muay Thai and that that was the reason Urquidez chose, or rather was allowed, to exclude it from his kickboxing record.
Paul Maslak (talk) 09:47, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I just tried to merge some the information from the recent changes. We should not be removing any cited material without discussion, and we do need more references. Please check my work to make sure I haven't messed anything up. Since we have a conflict in sources, it would be best if we could discuss the contents of the sources. --Nuujinn (talk) 22:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See my further comments in "Issues for Mediation Resolution" immediately below. Paul Maslak (talk) 03:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Upcoming interview with Benny Urquidez[edit]

I plan a direct interview with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez for publication within a few weeks. If anyone has biographical questions that you would like answered for inclusion in his Wikipedia entry, please leave them on my talk page. Paul Maslak (talk) 22:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Administrator Mediation[edit]

I believe Legkicker01's reversal of my factual corrections violate Wikipedia's rules about original research and neutral POV in a manner that may constitute libel. I ask for Administrator mediation. Paul Maslak (talk) 07:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Replied on Paul's talk page. Swarm X 10:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Issues for Mediation Resolution[edit]

Regarding “Controversial Fights” section

Issue #1 – Revised Paragraph 4 – Shinobu Onuki

“Next, on April 29, 1978, Urquidez faced his fourth Japanese opponent Shinobu Onuki in Tokyo; the event was co-promoted by the AJKF and Shin-Kakuktojutsu Federation. Eventually, Urquidez executed a throw that dislocated Onuki's shoulder. Initially, because of the throw, Urquidez was given a TKO loss, however, the promoters acknowledged that Urquidez used the throw without knowing it was illegal under Japanese rules; the bout was then scored as a no-contest.[16] Following this unsatisfactory result, the two faced each other again in Las Vegas on January 2, 1980.”

Objection: The following sentences were deleted from the end of the above paragraph without reasonable justification:

“The fight was aired by NBC, and this time Urquidez knocked out Onuki with a left hook to the body. Later, in October 1981, when the AJKF merged with the WKA, the WKA transmuted the original Onuki no-contest to a TKO victory for Urquidez.”

Reference source: "STAR Authenticated Kickboxing Record: Benny Urquidez" (4 December 1993). “STAR Equalization Findings” section, StarSystemKickboxing.net website. Retrieved on 19 June 2011.

Special Comments: Since this referenced source cites my own published work, a neutral mediation judgment is requested. Here are my list of published credits and biography as a recognized knowledgeable source on this subject. The STAR System World Kickboxing Ratings, which I administrated for nine years, are described immediately above on this page in the “Controversial fight decisions, Other record manipulations versus STAR ring records” section.

Furthermore:

A) In 1980, the WKA sanctioning body turned over all of its organizational records to the STAR System and, thereafter until 1989, the STAR kickboxing records became synonymous with the official WKA archival records as identified by the following published quotes:
“In 1979, (John) Corcoran became a consulting editor for Inside Kung-Fu under the editorship of Paul Maslak. Paul’s professional background was in computer science and statistics. Combining this expertise with Corcoran’s knowledge of the sport and its practitioners, the two devised the STAR System. This word is an acronym for Standardized Tournaments and Ratings. Howard Hanson, President of the WKA, has dropped his own (ranking) system in favor of this more scientific method.”
From: Managing Editor’s Note (Al Weiss) (July 1981). “The STAR System”, Official Karate magazine, p. 41.
“Hanson’s proclamation made the STAR ratings the official ratings of the WKA, and required WKA promoters to use the STAR ratings for purposes of matchmaking, and to determine legitimate title contendership.”
From WKA-affiliated publication: Marlow, Chris (November 1981). “The WKA: The First Worldwide Sanctioning Body for Full-Contact Karate”, Karate Monthly magazine, p. 66.
B) With regard to the referenced source in my wrap up sentences for the paragraph, the STAR Equalization Findings located at the immediate bottom of any STAR authenticated kickboxing record contain explanations of any noted irregularities and any official sanctioning body rulings for specific fights. Immediately below the Equalization Findings are corroborative media sources for the fight outcomes, especially for fights that occurred before or after the STAR System’s years of operations between 1980-1989. For Urquidez’s authenticated STAR ring record, the published STAR Findings about the final disposition of the first Urquidez-Onuki bout have not changed since in 1981 when WKA President Howard ordered this outcome transmuted in the record books. A copy of Hanson’s order still remains extant in the STAR System files.
C) WKA Japan (formerly AJKF - All Japan Kickboxing Federation or, depending on translation, AJKBA - All Japan Kick-Boxing Association), which promoted the first Urquidez-Onuki bout, apparently accepted the WKA’s final disposition. On page 30 of the September 1983 issue of the WKA Japan-affiliated publication, This is Martial Arts magazine (Sports Life Publications, Tokyo), Urquidez’s record has been printed directly from his STAR ring record as of that date for an article about a dream match between Toshio Fujiwara and Benny Urquidez. (I do not speak Japanese, the article was translated for me by a native Japanese friend.)
D) Finally, the editor who dropped my wrap up sentences in this paragraph justified his action by stating that I was mistaken. Yet he only cites sources which predate the final disposition of this bout. The STAR records are the official WKA records for this era. I am not mistaken.

Issue #2 – Revised Paragraph 6 – Prayout Sittiboonlert

First sentence: “Meanwhile, on August 2, 1978, Urquidez faced the then fifth-ranked welterweight Thai boxer, Prayout Sittiboonlert, as part of the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization's first independent event.”

Objection: According to a report STAR received from WKA Japan in 1981, Urquidez’s kick-knockout victory over Takeshi Naito on 10 April, 1978, was the first independent event under the Shin-Kukutojutsu Organization (aka “Katogi”), a sanction that broke away from the group that would become WKA Japan. Urquidez versus Sittiboonlert was part of the first event under Kenji Kurosaki’s “new rules”. A Japanese source was cited by this editor and cannot be double-checked for interpretive accuracy. I recommend dropping the word “first”.

Second sentence: "The rules for the bout included six two-minute rounds, one-minute intervals, and no elbow contact as per requests made by Urquidez. Urquidez lost a heart-stopping decision to the Thai, who controlled the fight with relentless knee attacks and through the masterful use of Thai clinches.[18]"

Objection: Previously, I changed “no elbow contact as per requests made by Urquidez” to “no elbow contact as per agreement with Urquidez”. I do not understand why this was put back. Having been part of the administration of the sport, I know that these early mixed-rules bouts horse-traded which rules would be in effect. Both managers would give up something to gain something. I can believe Urquidez’s corner wanted to prohibit elbow strikes to the head. Most American kickboxers still think elbow strikes to the head produce too many random TKOs from cuts rather than from skill. But giving up the elbow strikes would not have been one-sided. Without knowing the full details, the word “agreement” is more appropriate.

Balance of paragraph: “Shocked, Urquidez vowed to avenge the loss, and a rematch was set on October 30, 1978 at the Budokan (Martial Arts Hall) as part of the five world championships card for the Shin-Kakutojutsu Organization. However, for unknown reasons, Urquidez canceled the fight on the day of the event. According to one report, Urquidez did travel to Japan, but was unable to recover sufficiently from a high fever which he contracted from an allergic reaction to pain medication being used to treat a lingering left knuckle injury.[19] For years, Urquidez has claimed the Sittiboonlert fight was a no-contest, or has claimed the WKA and/or STAR system turned it into a no-contest. However, the fight was neither sanctioned nor promoted by the WKA. The fight was promoted by Kenji Kurosaki's Shin-Kakutojutsu Federation. Therefore, neither the WKA nor the STAR system had jurisdiction.”

Objection: I previously removed these sentences in their entirety. This entry is a biography about a living person whose personal income from seminars and student enrollments could be negatively affected by false, misleading or defamatory statements. Also, I am a living person and this section mentions an organization that I once administrated. Speaking as a former professional newsstand magazine editor and motion picture producer, in my judgment, this section could be construed as libelous. I submit that the above narrative violates Wikipedia policies regarding:
  • Neutral point of view (NPOV) – These sentences demonstrate a clear bias intended to make Benny Urquidez appear suddenly surprised by the "new rules" style of competition and/or fearful of this opponent. Rematches between professional fighters fall apart as often as they occur, usually for monetary reasons. For example, Urquidez’s long-awaited rematch against Howard Jackson never happened. Similarly, the anticipated dream matches between Urquidez and Toshio Fujiwara as well as the mix-match against Roberto Duran never happened. Such matters are not germane to Mr. Urquidez’s career biography and should not be part of a serious encyclopedia entry.
  • No original research (NOR) – The above narrative is fanciful and speculative. No one but Urquidez knows how he did or did not feel about this event, or whether he did or did not travel to Japan with a fever, etc. Furthermore, only I or John Corcoran can speak for the STAR System. This fight was not declared a no-contest by STAR or the WKA; it was declared muay Thai and, therefore, outside the purview of rated kickboxing competition. Both the STAR System and the WKA regarded bouts that allowed striking-and-holding as, by definition, belonging to the sport of muay Thai. I know that the WKA screened this fight to make that determination. The earlier description of “masterful use of Thai clinches” reinforces the WKA’s ruling.
  • Verifiability (V) – Japanese-language sources are unavailable and unverifiable. Also, mentions of STAR and WKA rulings are both unreferenced and untrue.

Removed Sentences: “Afterward, Urquidez said he had been deceptively maneuvered into a competitive bout under the unaccustomed “new rules” through deliberate misrepresentations.[19] This sanctioning organization was among several discontinued in 1981 for alleged ties to organized crime. Both the WKA and the STAR world ratings regarded this bout as muay Thai, a separate sport, and did not include it as part of Urquidez's rankings and record count for kickboxing.[14]"

Objection: I added the above sentences with appropriate reference citations. Why were they removed?

Paul Maslak (talk) 00:41, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Black Belt magazine interview[edit]

According to the pre-announcement, the April/May 2014 issue of Black Belt magazine is slated to feature an interview (and online video) with Urquidez. — Loadmaster (talk) 19:44, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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