Talk:Benjamin V. Cohen

Religion and ethnicity

The unsourced claim that this individual was both ethnically Jewish and practiced Judaism has been entered in the article without an inline citation. What is the source for this, what does it say, and (most importantly) why would it be relevant here? Jayjg ^(talk) 03:49, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

On source, provided in the edit summary, is "Benjamin V. Cohen: Architect of the New Deal, page 9." It says he was Jewish (see also the text in the article indicating his work for Zionist causes). It is relevant because it is "useful to the reader and is in the right article" (Wikipedia:Relevance). P.S., your reversion of my reversion violates wp:BRD. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 18:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

In what way is this trivia "useful to the reader"? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:00, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Here are three ways: (A) The reality of antisemitism in America during most of Cohen's life (something that would affect his career depending upon whether or not he was Jewish). (B) The fact that any group of people is interested in those of their members who have achieved fame (compare percentage of Mormons who voted for Romney). (C) Cohen's Jewish heritage helps explain, for example, his involvement as Zionist counsel to the 1919 Paris Peace Conference and his service to both the United States and the new state of Israel in 1948. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 12:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Those are all interesting arguments. Do any reliable secondary sources make them? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Really? Are you really asking for a cite to prove that antisemitism was rampant in the U.S. during (at least) the first half of the Twentieth Century? Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 13:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm asking for reliable secondary sources that indicate Cohen's Jewish ancestry was relevant to these issues. Jayjg ^(talk) 22:29, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean to be impolite, but I think you are entering wp:wikilawyering territory on this issue. Clearly, for whatever reason, you think Mr. Cohen's religion should not be in his infobox. But the fact is that he was Jewish and, as I set out above, that fact was relevant to his career. It appears to me that you are being purposefully obtuse - so much so that I fear that if I spend my time to satisfy your unreasonable demand for a cite to support the obvious the result will be you saying "not good enough." Please set me to rights if I am misconstruing what is going on here. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 23:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Coincidence? I am watching a CSPAN-2 presentation by the author of the new Joseph Kennedy biography. He just mentioned Mr. Cohen as one of the Jews working in the White House that Kennedy thought were up to no good. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 00:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

So you don't have any secondary sources indicating this Jewishness is in any way relevant to anything? If you had a source that he wore size 9 shoes, would you put that in too? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:57, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Which is not an answer to my question: If I go to the trouble of finding a source that he wore size nine shoes and that his shoe size affected his career, would you accept it OR are you so fixated on removing his shoe size from this article that I will be wasting my time to find it for you? (E.g., the way you simply ignore my "Coincidence?" comment above. Was that not a secondary source that his Jewishness affected how those in powerful places viewed him (making it relevant for this article)?) Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 13:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Let's not talk about hypotheticals; instead, please provide secondary sources that indicate his Jewish ancestry was relevant to any of the points you've made. Jayjg ^(talk) 23:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

O.k., first book I picked up: Jordan A. Schwarz, THE NEW DEALERS (Vintage New York), page 144: "Although no government lawyer was as respected as Cohen, he never had a prominent position in government because of his palpable Jewishness." Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 01:59, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. How did you plan to include in this article this information regarding the discrimination Cohen experienced? Did you plan, for example, to put it in one of the sections outlining his career? If so, which one? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I've restored the information you deleted. Feel free to do more if you choose. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 12:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

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