Talk:Ben Shive

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References[edit]

The 'cite web' reference to Family Search does not contain a URL. Because there is no direct link to the source material I attempted to locate a website supporting a search with the provided number: 684621215. Unable to find material using the number in search I'm unable to verify the articles content. Gab4gab (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gab4gab: You can look at the source in this link, where I verified the information contained therein, while I cannot post it on his page, for it contains an address. I provided the record, where I utilized the information.The Cross Bearer (talk) 16:01, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Cross Bearer: I have looked at the source provided by your link. It does not support the statement 'in St. Louis, Missouri....where he was raised with his elder brother, Joshua.' I say this because (1)the source doesn't indicate Joshua is older, (2)the source doesn't indicate Joshua raised Ben, (3) the source doesn't mention St. Louis, Missouri. If a source can't be used to verify the content of the article it shouldn't be cited as a source.Gab4gab (talk) 17:11, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Gab4gab: The Noisetrade source said St. Louis, and he calls Josh his brother, and "raised with", now are not we getting into nitpicky territory about phrases. I removed the elder part. You may want to look at SELFSOURCE, to see comments made by the individuals about themselves can be used on Wikipedia.The Cross Bearer (talk) 06:07, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Cross Bearer: I have looked at the Noisetrade source. I see no mention of either Josh or who Ben was "raised with." Introduction of details not supported by sources looks like original research. While self sourced material can be used the article can be improved through the use of reliable secondary sources. Consider for example the claim to have played the Grand Ole Opry three times. Self sourced is very weak. Reliable secondary sources much better. Please help by adding reliable sources. Please don't remove the BLP Sources template again until the sources are improved and the unsupported material is removed. Gab4gab (talk) 13:27, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Gab4gab: The Noisetrade source said his dad is a scientist, he was born in St. Louis, his wife is Beth, the tweets are what reference his brother, Joshua, and his daughter in the other one. I will be removing the tag, per the same page the tag references, please read the guidelines on the page.The Cross Bearer (talk) 13:42, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Cross Bearer: Really need to avoid adding 'facts' to an article that are not supported by the sources. The NoiseTrade source said he is the son of a scientist. That is not the same as saying his father was a scientist. To be clear - if a boys mother or father is a scientist then he is the son of a scientist. It may be that Josh and Ben were raised together in St. Louis. However that fact cannot be verified from the sources provided. Please review the original research policy which contains this quote: "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves." Gab4gab (talk) 17:03, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Gab4gab: I tried to fix it per the best of my ability.The Cross Bearer (talk) 18:50, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Cross Bearer: Appreciate your contributions to the Wikipedia. Perhaps you are burdened by knowledge from unpublished sources.

I have found this item which might help support the Grand Ole Opry performances: : http://centricitymusic.com/site/andrew-peterson-returns-to-grand-ole-opry-stage-may-24th/ When I look at both the intellius and Family Search material I see lists of relatives or possible relatives. The relationships are not listed. So for example while Sheila Shive is a listed relative she is not identified as the mother. Same for the father. Additionally there is no indication that Larry is a scientist. Your information may all be correct. I'm sorry if I missed something but I am not able to verify those details from the sources. What do you suggest to resolve this? The Family Search reference remains unusable by the reader. I'm thinking it's best to remove it. Do you have another option to suggest? Gab4gab (talk) 16:06, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gab4gab: Yes, his father is a published scientist, per this Google search as Larry Wayne Shive, who follows his son on twitter. His mother, Sheila Shive, is affiliated with the Pancreatic Cancer Walk in St. Louis, right here.The Cross Bearer (talk) 03:21, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@The Cross Bearer: It appears there is no reliable source naming Ben's mother and father. The issue isn't whether they are accurate. I've removed those 'facts' from the article because they weren't verifiable from the sources referenced. I've also removed the Family Search reference. I agree with your conclusion that it can't be used due to the address it contains. Gab4gab (talk) 17:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Gab4gab: It has been a pleasure to work with you on this article.The Cross Bearer (talk) 02:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]