Talk:Barnes Foundation

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Today's edit[edit]

A note to the anon author of this edit: thank you for your contribution, but please rewrite your contribution to be in accord with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Otherwise, your change may be reverted, which would be a shame, because it's clear that you have valuable information that would be an asset not only to the development of this page, but also to Wikipedia as a whole. Take a look at Portal:Art -- we've got a lot of red links we'd love to turn blue... --Arcadian 22:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: Lack of bias has not yet been fixed by the original poster, so it has been tweaked. Left in the "stronger" comments, but added that they are one perspective, in the bigger story. I tried to add the bigger story, taken from press releases of the foundation, the charitable trusts, and others. I linked all of these press released in the "External Links" section for reference. One Request: I have no connection to philadelphia, so I think some of my local naming changes (merion station->lower merion), which were gleaned from the Philadelphia Inquirer could be very wrong. If someone local could have a good read-over it would probably be a Very Good Thing. --chaleur 19:15, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Corrections made[edit]

I removed some of the libelous entries and personal opinions about the "decrepit city of Philadelphia", etc. I also added some detail about the terms of the Will, and a few other things.

There is much more to the story, including its governance by Lincoln University, its difficult location in a residential neighborhood, Dr. Barnes' fights with the arts community in Philadelphia, the financially ruinous lawsuit brought by the Barnes' board president against Lower Merion Township, etc. But those details deserve to be presented in a neutral manner, not as an opinion piece more suited to a letter-to-the-editor.

Also, in answer to a comment, Lower Merion Township is the incorporated area in which the Barnes Foundation is located. Merion, Merion Station, etc. are unincorporated areas of Lower Merion Township.

Essentially the fight is over external governance of a private facility and the continued belief that wills are legitimate and private property is respected. I understand that those who love justice and those who love art are very passionate on the subject of the Barnes Foundation. That said, it is imperative to avoid zealous language in Wikipedia articles. Gingermint (talk) 04:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the corrections[edit]

Thanks for your contributions and notes, 68.166.177.207. You seem incredibly knowledgable about this complex issue. I completely agree with you that inappropriate statements were made in the article, though I agree with Arcadian, that there was certainly valuable information in there too.

But...(sorry).

I'm worried you just biased things the other way. I'm not sure why you took out some of the things you did. There was nothing libellous about what was in there, as it was prefaced with statements like: "They...believe that...". That can only be libellous if "they" do not in fact "believe" it, and since we have a link (Site by former students...) showing us that they do...

Like it or not, the current controversy is an important part of the history of the Barnes Foundation. It is interesting in and of itself, and it is worthy of being recorded. A study of the matter could teach a thing or two to other institutions. I think you may have taken out the (unproven and undocumented) views of one side, and emphasised the (unproven and undocumented) statements of the other.

For an example on the latter, you changed: "A 1999 forensic audit ... was announced as showing" to "A 1999 forensic audit ... showed". Since it seems the audit was never released to the public (please correct me if I'm wrong), how do you know what it showed (unless you are on the Foundation's Board of Directors)?

Personally, I've no opinion one way or the other on the controversy. I just think we do a disservice to everyone, in the long run, if we paper over it. Ergo, please consider this a respectful request to reconsider the new bias that you have introduced.

(Addendum: Definitely appreciate the technical corrections on my edits, btw! I always miss stuff :).

--chaleur 22:43, 06 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh[edit]

Interesting. Point well taken. I changed the sentence, "A 1999 forensic audit conducted by Deloitte Touche was announced as showing the Foundation to be nearing bankruptcy." simply because I thought "was announced as showing" was exceedingly wordy (English major and teacher here), and thought the change was easier to read while still keeping to the facts. I wasn't trying to obfuscate the facts, just got caught up in editing the extranneous. I believe the Deloitte audit was released in 2003.

I didn't mean to suggest that the speculation in the article was libelous, but there were, as I remember, statements presented as fact that were not true or attributed unproved motives to one or more parties.

I removed the assertion..."His decision was doubtless influenced by the fact that three charitable trusts...", because it seemed not only to be speculation, but it also trivialized any judge's role in applying the rule of law while keeping his personal feelings at bay. In the least, it's speculative on someone's part. I feel an encyclopedia should be as neutral as possible, while presenting all the facts.

There's lots more to the story. Maybe on a cold, rainy day this winter I'll do some more research and add more to the entry. I should register with Wikipedia too.

Lectures[edit]

Betrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy [1] originated as a series of lectures at the Barnes Foundation in 1941 and 1942, as is mentioned in the article about the book. It would be nice to include that here, but it is probably inappropriate to single out these particular lectures. Can anyone supply a general account of the lecture program? David Watson 23:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gerlach opposition to move[edit]

Rep. Jim Gerlach (R-Pa.) pledged on November 15 to introduce legislation that would prevent the Barnes Foundation from being relocated to Philadelphia from suburban Merion, Pa. The bill would penalize any charitable institution that solicits donations contrary to the original benefactor's wishes. His bill would impose a penalty equal to the value of any donation given to move the foundation. In a statement, the lawmaker said the move would destroy "Pennsylvania's reputation as a place where estate and property rights are vigorously defended." http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/15747397.htm Robertwalton 19:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History Section[edit]

I separated the history section from the current events, allowing each to ahve some more room. I added a few details - and some interesting readings - about the Barnes Fondation. Surprised that no one has done this yet. Barnes, Dewey etc. could be developed from the rudiments that I put in.Brosi 16:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Title?[edit]

Shouldn't this article be titled just "Barnes Foundation"? I know that the planned move to the city is controversial, but the official website says just "Barnes Foundation", as do the wikis in other languages. Also, "Barnes Foundation" redirects here, so there is no apparent need for disambiguation.--BillFlis 12:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, page should be moved. Wikipedia is the only place I could find that the "Barnes Foundation" is refered to as the "Barnes Foundation of Philadelphia." Nor could I find any other Barnes Foundation that this should that wikipedia would want to differentiate. By looking at the history, it looks like when the page was created, it was set up this way. Mitico 14:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Philadelphia[edit]

The Youth Study Center has moved to West Philadelphia, their building has been demolished, and a bare site awaits the beginning of construction for the new museum, at 2001 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, just west of the Central Library. I believe all the legal obstacles have been overcome, but a few diehard Barnes students continue to argue against the move. Of course, the Barnes Foundation Arboretum is going to stay in Lower Merion. Someone should find references for the current situation, and update both this article and the Albert C. Barnes article. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the move is illegal. And no, even as of 2009 all the "legal obstacles" were not overcome. Gingermint (talk) 04:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New Challenge: Friends study by Marcus[edit]

The study is listed in the External Links, as the extensive discussion was not covered by cited sources. Also, this is material supplied by an interest group rather than third-party. The editors should seek more information from news accounts, rather than press releases by the Friends interest group. --Parkwells (talk) 15:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparent COI edits by barnesfoundation.org[edit]

Account 64.80.199.162, registered to barnesfoundation.org, made several edits to the article today. In my opinion Foundation editing should be limited to the talk page, per Wikipedia's conflict of interest rules. --CliffC (talk) 22:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A Must-Read[edit]

The May 31, 2010, Weekly Standard magazine has published an article that should be read by everyone interested in the Barnes Foundation. Entitled "No Museum Left Behind," it is written by Lance Esplund, who often contributes art essays to the Wall Street Journal.68.226.16.229 (talk) 05:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So what is the Youth Study Center?[edit]

"Students and staff at the Youth Study Center have been temporarily relocated to East Falls, Philadelphia. A new facility in West Philadelphia is to be completed in 2013. The Youth Study Center building was demolished to allow site work to begin for new construction." Uh, so what is this place? It wasn't mentioned anywhere else in the article. Gingermint (talk) 04:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Youth Study Center is a jail for juvenile offenders. The Philadelphia Department of Human Services, which runs it, calls it "the only secure youth detention facility in Philadelphia"(http://dhs.phila.gov/intranet/pgintrahome_pub.nsf/Content/JJS+-+Youth+Study+Center). When you tally up the winners and losers in the Barnes relocation, it's acknowledged that Merion comes out worse and Logan Square (which goes from "library, jail, art museum, ball-field" to "library, world-class art collection, art museum, ball-field") gains. You hear less about the neighborhood of 48th and Haverford, which is getting the juvenile lock-up that Logan Square shed. (http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/item/25306-construction-accelerates-for-new-youth-study-center-) It's a worse hit, and they're less able to take it. But they don't have the legal and public-relations horsepower that Lower Merion has. TypoBoy (talk) 15:52, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Updated to represent current events[edit]

Updated to show construction has been completed and new facility opened. Content from reviews (generally positive) to be added. Parkwells (talk) 19:30, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Original facility in Lower Merion[edit]

So what becomes of the original building? Will it be sold? Does it have great architectural merit? Was the original facility a large part of the experience of viewing the collection? Does the foundation have enough funding to rotate pieces of the collection through the original building? Marc S., Dania fl 206.192.35.125 (talk) 13:50, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Concerns about sources[edit]

  • I've been meaning to put some comments on this talk page for a while now regarding Albert Barnes-related sources. I want to encourage people to be extra cautious in their reading of sources about Albert C. Barnes for a number of reasons.
1. Barnes was definitely a colorful person (to say the least) who aroused strong opinions in others. His own statements as well as those of others should be examined very carefully. It is tempting to repeat apocryphal stories about him without checking for careful sourcing: even recent books and articles should be read with some caution for this reason. Some of the newer research (see point 2) overturns some of the older stories about him.
2. Much of the writing about Barnes and the Barnes Foundation predates the organization of the Barnes Foundation Archives and Library, which have been rightfully described as "long-neglected".
Major efforts to organize the archives' materials and make them more accessible began around 2007. (See Beaucar, Barbara; Pruitt, Adrienne; Rawdon, Katy (2008). "'Art is no trivial matter': the Barnes Foundation Archives and Library". Art Libraries Journal. 33 (1): 22–27. doi:10.1017/S0307472200015182.) They moved from Merion to the Parkway in Philadelphia in 2017. (See "The Barnes Foundation's Archives and Special Collections Moves to the Parkway". Delaware Valley Archivists Group. February 13, 2017.
As a result of the archives work, recent researchers have potentially had access to a wider range of resources than were previously available. My personal opinion is that in many cases newer publications tend to be more carefully sourced and less biased, even though a number of these newer sources are catalogues published by the Barnes Foundation. Generally speaking I think that all sources that discuss Albert C. Barnes should be very read carefully with an eye to bias (or which there is lots). Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here is a list of some titles published before the archives were opened, in some cases with my personal notes/opinions Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Anderson, John. Art Held Hostage: the battle over the Barnes collection. New York, NY : W.W. Norton & Company, 2003.
    • Cantor, Gilbert. The Barnes Foundation: reality vs. myth. Philadelphia, PA : Consolidated/Drake Press, 1974.
    • Greenfeld, Howard. The Devil and Dr. Barnes: portrait of an American art collector. New York, NY : Viking, 1987. ("A Note on Sources" in the book states: "Neither footnotes nor a detailed bibliography of sources seems to be appropriate in a book of this nature." Possible negative bias.)
    • Hart, Henry. Dr. Barnes of Merion: an appreciation. New York, NY : Farrar, Strauss and Company, 1963. (Hart was a reporter for the Philadelphia Record and a friend of Dr. and Mrs. Barnes; not a scholarly publication, no citations. Possible positive bias.)
    • Meyers, Mary Ann. Art, Education, & African-American Culture: Albert Barnes and the science of philanthropy. New Brunswick, NJ : Transaction Publishers, 2004. (Contains both factual information and speculation, usually identifiable.)
    • Rudenstine, Neil. The House of Barnes: the man, the collection, and the controversy. Philadelphia, PA : American Philosophical Society, 2012. (Possible negative bias.)
    • Schack, William. Art and argyrol : the life and career of Dr. Albert C. Barnes. New York, NY : Thomas Yoseloff, 1960.
    • Wattenmaker, Richard and Anne Distel, et al. Great French Paintings from the Barnes Foundation : Impressionist, Post-impressionist, and Early Modern. New York, NY : Knopf : in association with Lincoln University Press, 1993. (Catalog: Great French Paintings tour)
  • More recent catalogs may have used more newly available collections & archives information
    • Clarke, Christa. African Art in the Barnes Foundation. New York, NY : Skira Rizzoli Publications, Inc., 2015. (Catalog: African collection)
    • Dolkart, Judith and Martha Lucy. Masterworks: The Barnes Foundation. New York, NY : Skira Rizzoli Publications, Inc., 2012, 2013. (Catalog: Ensemble walls)
    • Lucy, Martha and John House. Renoir in the Barnes Foundation. New Haven, CT : Yale University Press in association with The Barnes Foundation, 2012. (Catalog: Renoir collection)
    • Wattenmaker. Richard. American Paintings and Works on Paper in the Barnes Foundation. Merion, PA : Barnes Foundation; New Haven: In association with Yale University Press, 2010. (Catalog: American artists; Recent scholarly biography. Recommended.)

The minority of citations that do not use citation templates[edit]

I notice that there are several citations that do not use citation templates. These have an appearance inconsistent with most of the other citations. As per WP:CITEVAR, I will convert these to citation templates. Peaceray (talk) 05:16, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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