Talk:Bình An/Tây Vinh massacre

This article was nominated for deletion on 1 November 2018. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was proposed for deletion by Twking5008 (talk · contribs) on 31 August 2016.
It was contested by Necrothesp (talk · contribs) on 31 August 2016 with the comment:
deprod; no reason stated for prod

Vietnam Mid‑importance

	Vietnam portal This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Human rights Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / Southeast Asia / Cold War C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	Southeast Asian military history task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)

Ref improve[edit]

This page relies entirely on 2 articles, one in English, the other in Korean and the English article is entirely from Vietnamese POV. I have done a quick search for this event, but found nothing other than references back to this page. Mztourist (talk) 18:34, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the same as Bình An massacre? They both seem to derive from the same source. Mztourist (talk) 10:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merger Proposal[edit]

I propose that this page and Bình An massacre be merged into a single page called Bình An / Tây Vinh massacre as both pages are short and rely on the same single and relatively unreliable/non WP:RS English source. This page already states that it relates to the Bình An / Tây Vinh massacre occurring between February 12, 1966 and March 17, 1966, overlapping in time and area with the Bình An massacre. There is no need for 2 pages when evidence of either massacre is so scarce. Mztourist (talk) 06:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC

I agree, it seems like the sources, both English and Korean almost label the Tay Vinh and Binh An massacre as the same incident. Also, the source is rather unreliable, as it only relies on interviews made by professor Ku, rather than other sources. Professor Ku made several mistakes in the past such as reporting a massacre that was framed on the Korean forces which was proven to be false after a join investigation between US-RVN-Korean forces. --Woo1693 (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting Suggestion[edit]

I suggest that this page be deleted. The source that this page only relies is from a web article www.hani.co.kr/h21/vietnam/eng-jujoo.html, and this article is never been crosschecked. Twking5008 (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support deletion this has lacked WP:RS for a long time despite being tagged for refimprove. Mztourist (talk) 03:15, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support deletion The references in this page are either "hani" newspapers or are recertifying their claims. It is making an error in Circular reporting. Please review and remove duplicate references.

Much more reliable sources from newspapers show this is notable. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:33, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please give me the address of that article. Is there any data before 1999 when hankyoreh announced this massacre? BerrySonKahn(talk)

Please upload any data prior to Hankyoreh's 1999 report.[edit]

I failed to find it. All the data quotes hankyoreh's claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BerrySonKahn (talk • contribs) 09:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Restored, but no more WP:RS provided[edit]

This page was deleted: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bình An/Tây Vinh massacre (2nd nomination) in September 2016. It was apparently reinstated in early June 2018? While some news stories have been added, these contain only vague and limited detail which I critique below:

[1] Ku Su Jeong's original story which does not appear to meet any objective research standards
This Reuters story from 2000: [2] states "Three local officials, including one who said he survived the alleged killings, spoke at length about the events in Binh Dinh. The officials, who declined to be identified, said that in early 1966, Korean troops entered what was then the Binh An commune, a collection of villages within Tay Son district that they believed was a Viet Cong stronghold. The Koreans were intent on flushing out opposing forces, but civilians bore the brunt of their actions, the officials said. An official at Tay Son's Communist Party history unit said the attacks began in early 1966 and culminated in a massacre of 380 people on Feb. 26, 1966, at a place called Go Dai." and "A People's Committee official in Tay Son district also confirmed the details, saying 1,200 people were killed. A government official in Hanoi said central authorities had later investigated what happened at Binh Dinh and compiled detailed reports, which showed more than 1,000 people were killed during the period, about 380 of them at Go Dai. However, when asked for comment and to confirm the alleged killings, Vietnam's foreign ministry said it did not want to dwell on the matter." So we have various unnamed representatives of the Vietnamese Government claiming that there was a massacre, but when pushed for details didn't want to confirm the event or comment on it, how reliable is that? The dates also don't match as the Infobox says 12 February to 17 March 1966.
This Hankyoreh story: [3] from 2016 which is effectively one Vietnamese villager's account and so is WP:PRIMARY and otherwise just an account of the Tuoi Tre stories discussed below
I can't access the relevant page of Clodfelter's book [4], but would be very interested to know exactly what it says
This Asian Human Rights story [5] from 2000 which contains no specifics
The Tuoi Tre story [6] from 2016 where 2 Vietnamese villagers are interviewed: "Nguyen Tan Lan, 65, sustained multiple grenade wounds on his legs in the Binh An massacre in Tay Son District, Binh Dinh Province." and "Trinh Thi Nam, 75, who now resides in An Nhon Town, Binh Dinh Province, was 25 years old during mass killings and has spent the past 50 years scarred from the event. Her two children and three relatives were killed simultaneously by South Korean troops. Nam and her two-year-old baby were fortunate to escape from the ordeal alive." again these are WP:PRIMARY and provide scant detail.

and that's all, I really don't think there are enough WP:RS to say what went on at Bình An/Tây Vinh and certainly not enough to say that a massacre took place there. Mztourist (talk) 08:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]