Talk:Axioupoli

Pyraechmes' edits.

Pyraechmes, articles do not include lists of minor figures in an old revolution. Nor should they contain exclusively 100% bias from one side. It is clear that the population 100 years ago was ethnically macedonian/bulgarian and turkish. This is relevant information. if you want to mention that the Greeks were transported from the Caucaus be free to do so. However dont remove the old analysis. PMK1 (talk) 22:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

You mentioned only your point of view! The truth is that the population was 30% Greek 100 years ago. Those people you consider as minor figures are the heroes of Axioupolis. You don;t have the right to erase the history of a place. Because, nowadays Axioupolites honour their dead! In that place some people fought to be Greek. You have to accept this. The proof is the Macedonian fighters, but as I understood you don't care about proves. You already have your POV, anyway. Don't try to make your POV as it was the truth.Pyraechmes (talk)Chrusts 16:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The fact that they are the "Heroes of Axioupolis" is irrelevant. This is Wikipedia not Axiopedia. It is honoring of neglecting them, but the fact that some people had minor contributions to a an old conflict does not belong in a list in the middle of the page. "Athanassios Tsempis" from Skra and some other fighters do not belong here.

you have effectively turned the page into a narrative, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a story. Unless you can make the page conform to Wiki Style context, I will revert you again.

Do you have any proof that the population was 30% Greek 100 years ago? Studies and Censa from the time show that it was a Split Macedonian/Bulgarian and Turkish town. From what I know the village participated in the Ilinden uprising. Around 500 people emigrated from the village after the First World War to Bulgaria adn Yugoslavia, some Pontic refugees replaced them. By 1940 apparently there were 150 Macedonians/Bulgarians left in Bojmica. It seems that this Greek majority has only been attained very recently (last 60 years). PMK1 (talk) 06:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

The history of Axioupolis, I think it includes the heroes. This article is about, not only Axioupolis town but also Axioupolis municipality. That's why heroes from Skra must be here. Their contibutions are not minor in the history of Axioupolis which we examine now. The old comflict is the second large revolution of Hellenism after the Greek War of independence in 1821. And, anyway it is a part of history, especially in towns of Macedonia. Why do you think it is appropriate to put some historical facts for every place or town? Is it a new policy? Or is it your policy? There was Greek population in Axioupolis as it is now. Nowadays the population of Axioupolis consists of 60% native Macedonians. The rest are descentants of refugees of 1922. The heroes of the Macedonian Struggle were the anchestors of these native Macedonians of Axioupolis. So give me a rational explanation if there were no Greeks 100 years ago, then why did they fought for Greece? I don't know what kind of studies and education you have but those censa you mention, look like somone wants to promote propaganda here. There were some Slavic people in Axioupolis, but they left as you mentioned. The Greeks remained. And by the way, you ask me to forget the history of Axioupolis (as an "old conflict") but you insist in not using the real name which is Axioupolis and you write about an old forgoten name, during Ottoman times. You are fighting for not using the Greek names of towns in FYROM on the other side. Be serious please. Pyraechmes (talk) Chrusts 09:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It is not common Wikipedia practise to add full histories of municipalities in town pages, understand that. Write about the history of Axioupoli here, because 100 years ago the Axioupoli municipality did not exist. The municipality is a man-made administrative boundary, nothing more. A town however is completely different. Also it is worth noting the "actual" history of the town and that the majority of the population before 1922 was not-Greek. PMK1 (talk) 13:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Suppers and Dinners

In connection to the recent edit-war, I have to mention that Dinner for Three has a point. In a sentence mentioning historic names of a settlement (like the ones before the certain village and town was renamed) the wording Macedonian Slavic simply does not suffice for the period. Sources point to a Bulgarian name. The present-day language, dialects or whatever could be classified in any way, but the historic name was in Bulgarian. --Laveol ^T 09:13, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

To add to this - the name was used by locals who emigrated to Bulgaria in the inter-war period. There was an official population exchange between the two countries in 1923 or 1924. So it is plainly wrong to put the name in the present-day dialogue and the context of the pretty one-sided section on Macedonian Slavic.--Laveol ^T 09:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Have a look at the latest version and I hope that we can work from there. Lunch for Two (talk) 09:29, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Let us start from here - is there a significant population of Macedonian Slavs or whatever the heck we should call them in the village as of now? --Laveol ^T 09:33, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Or in another words - is Macedonian Slavic spoken by a substantial portion of the population? --Laveol ^T 09:35, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

From what I am aware the population of the village is comprised of Greeks speakers and Macedonian speakers, along with a smaller number of Aromanian speakers. According to this source there are Macedonian speakers living in Axioupoli [1]. Lunch for Two (talk) 13:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I asked if there was a substantial portion of the population speaking the so-called Macedonian Slavic. How could you gather it from this source since it speaks of both languages simultaneously ([slavo-]macédonien/bulgare - how odd since such a formula was rejected here for a reason). It does not go as far as saying if there are a lot of them or a little of them. How do you know there are a lot of them? Cause if you do not know I will simply add the name in Bulgarian since sources say that the old Bulgarian name was Boymitsa. And that is it.--Laveol ^T 15:09, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

The exact wording of the article is has no bearing whatsoever on the formula. One can assume that the proportion of people speaking Macedonian is significant for it to be mentioned alongside other places with large Macedonian speaking populations (Btw, it is a bit unreasonable to expect such detailed sources for every single village). I think a good comprise would be to put the Bulgarian name in the name section, yet have the Macedonian Slavic in the lead. Lunch for Two (talk) 15:23, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, a good compromise? You have no sources stating there are a substantial number of Macedonian-speakers there. Stating this based on no evidence is Original Research. And most probably they are not many since almost all the Slavic (Bulgarian) population fled to Bulgaria or participated in the exchange with Greece. Either provide a reliable resource backing up a Macedonian-Slavic name per MOS:PN and WP:PLACE, or I will proceed as already explained.--Laveol ^T 17:32, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Anything? --Laveol ^T 17:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

You may have read my post here, you may have not. My computer at the moment is out of action due to a trojan virus (which, funnily enough, was caused by researching for Meliti, after clicking the "news article" which I was linked to). As a result, for the moment, my research abilities have been a bit limited. I am confident however that there is a Macedonian speaking population in the village. The euromosaic link reinforces the presence of Macedonian speakers, also Bulgarnation.com (although is not a reliable source) is generally accurate as to where Macedonians live and where they do not anymore (it also says that the village is mixed). I'm sure either Tasos Kostopolous' "The Forbidden language - State suppression of the Slavic dialects of Greek Macedonia" or Todor Simovski's "The Inhabited Places in Aegean Macedonia" would be a handy book to have in regards to this issue. Lunch for Two (talk) 05:28, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

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