Talk:Ashes to Ashes (David Bowie song)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 21:45, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

We are reunited once again; I will crack on with this tomorrow! --K. Peake 21:45, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• WP:OVERLINK of David Bowie under producers in the infobox

• Done

• Change the first sentence to mentioning it is from his 14th studio album, Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps) (1980) and move the release part to being the third sentence instead

• moved date to start the second para and the no. 1 part with it so the MV is after it. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Should you really use "junkie" or rephrase it to something more appropriate for the lead?

• I agree that's probably not appropriate. Adjusted it.

• I feel the lead is out of order after the first para; shouldn't it be critical reception, then commercial, then music video and keep the current order after that?

• I think we've had discussions about this before but I've never been told there's an order you HAVE to follow with these things. In my recent FACs I've found I get oppression when I stick to the layout you've mentioned here so here I grouped both old and new reviews together so we don't have repeat info (it also doesn't help I didn't really find many initial reviews to get a good summary). – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "variations on the song's themes," → "variations of the song's theme,"
• "commentators consider it one of" → "commentators have considered it one of"

• both done

• "became Bowie's second No. 1 UK single" → "became Bowie's second number one UK single" per MOS:NUM

• I normally do that but with Scary Monsters, the album has "It's No Game", split into two parts and labeled (No. 1) and (No. 2), so I've been trying to keep consistency across the song articles belonging to the album as well. If "It's No Game" wasn't mentioned I'd change it no problem but since it is (B-side of US single), I'd rather keep it consistent. If that makes zero sense I'll change it. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Is "up to that point" really needed when you use upon release to start the sentence?

• I guess not.

• "later reviewers and biographers consider it" → "later reviewers and biographers have considered it"
• "particularly praising its" → "particularly praising the"

• both done

Writing and recording

Backing tracks

• Img looks good!
• "like Bowie's four previous albums," → "like Bowie's previous four albums," to avoid it being implied that this is his fifth album ever
• Pipe slapping to Slapping (guitar) per MOS:LINK2SECT
• Pipe multi-track to Multitrack recording
• "never done bad things...'"." → "never done bad things...'" per MOS:QUOTE allowing punctuation like ellipsis to end a quote

• all done

Vocals and overdubs

• "According to author Peter Doggett states that Bowie" either write according to or that the author states that

• that's a simple case of forgetting to proofread. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "Bowie originally sang the title as" this is confusing since it says what he originally sang it as, then uses as for a line straight afterwards

• Does changing it to "Bowie originally sang "ashes to ashes" as" clear it up? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "[Kenny Everett 'Space Oddity'] drummer" I am confused why his name is italicised and this needn't be in [] when it's not in a quote

• It's referring to the show performance (i.e. The "Will Kenny Everett Make It to 1980?" Show); added the word Show to clarify that. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Composition

Music

• Img looks good!
• The Dig! ref should be the second of the group to correspond with the genres order

• Done. I swear there used to be a gadget to fix those that completely disappeared. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Add a semi-colon instead of a comma after the genres

• Done

• Should pop music be wikilinked or is this not about the genre?

• it's referring to music as a whole but I don't see why a link couldn't hurt – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Start the arpeggio figure part as a new sentence

• lack of proofreading again, ugh – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "that "Inchworm"'s chords were" → "that the song's chords were"

• Done

• Why is F the only musical note linked?

• Think I forget to link them; done – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Should you use a before the series quote of O'Leary?

• yep

Lyrics

• Shouldn't laughs be italicised on the quote box per the source even though it is in brackets?

• let's just remove it altogether – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "is oddly magnificent."" → "is oddly magnificent"." per MOS:QUOTE

• done

Analysis

• Specify which America is being referred to here

• changed to the US

• "I have a lot of" → "I have an awful lot of" per the source
• "as the artist's desire to" → "as his desire to"
• "Bowie said that "I was" → "Bowie said, "I was" if this is a full sentence; if not, place the punctuation outside quotes

• all fixed

Music video

• Img looks good!
• "and remains one" would it be better to write "and has remained one" or at least add the year this is reporting from?

• fixed

• "and employ it" → "and employ the vehicle" to avoid overusage of it
• "of the next scene."" → "of the next scene"." per MOS:QUOTE

• both done

• Maybe you should only write that they were members of London's Blitz since the term nightclub is used straight after in the description?

• Valid point, fixed

• "in the bulldozer. "That's" → "in the bulldozer: "That's"
• "whose affiliation with Bowie" → "whose affiliation with the singer"

• both done

• Quote box looks good!
• "Pegg and Buckley interpret" → "Pegg and Buckley interpret that"

• done

Release

• Swap this with the music video section for a better order

• I mainly ordered it this way for chronological purposes (since it was shot immediately after recording folded and over three months before release), but there's no point in fighting over that so done. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "RCA stressed the relationship" maybe emphasized would be better than stressed?

• done. The source actually uses the word stressed so that's awkward. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Pipe 12" vinyl to Twelve-inch single
• "in America titled" → "in the US titled"

• done

• "On the album, released on 12 September," → "On Scary Monsters, released on 12 September 1980,"

• we don't need to say 1980 again since it's made clear at the start. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Commercial performance

• "Debuting at No. 4 on" → "Debuting at number four on" per MOS:NUM
• "reaching No. 79 on" → "reaching number 79 on"
• "and No. 101 on" → "and number 101 on"
• "at No. 3 in" → "at number 3 in"
• "also reached No. 14" → "also reached number 14"

• see reasons above for using No. instead of number – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Critical reception

• Remove pipe on Billboard

• done

• Either identify the Billboard reviewer as a writer or the staff

• writer; the magazine made it literally impossible to find who reviewed what; super annoying – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "called it a" → "called the song a"
• "to see the song" → "to see it"
• "finding it "not in" → "finding the song "not in"
• "while NME ranked it" → "while NME ranked the song"

• all done

Live performances

• Wikilink live album
• Wikilink BBC Radio Theatre to itself
• Remove overly obvious wikilink on Dublin

• all done

Influence and legacy

• Why is Rhino Entertainment italicised?

• Thought it was supposed to be. Awkward. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "with its "omnibus clash" → "with its "ominous clash" per the source

• typo

• "midway through the book."" → "midway through the book"." per MOS:QUOTE

• question about this sentence: do you get what he's saying? I thought it was worthy enough to include and kind of get what he's saying but as an outside individual do you think it makes sense? If not, we can remove it. Thanks. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "doubting lyrics – is perfect."" → "doubting lyrics – is perfect"." per above
• "even considered it one of" → "even considered the track one of"
• "also included "Ashes to Ashes"'s video in" → "also included the visual in"
• "Pegg argues it" → "Pegg argues the visual"
• "while Heller contends it" → "while Heller contended it"
• ""Chorus" (1991), Marilyn Manson's" → ""Chorus" (1991) and Marilyn Manson's"

• above six done

• Any update on the spacesuit now that we are in 2023?

• Nope, nothing – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• "Rumours of an extended unreleased version" this sentence never gets to the point about these rumours

• fixed

• Remove (no order) since this is the first one listed so does not need it in brackets
• Digital Spy should not be italicised
• Add the release years of the last two songs in brackets

• above three done

Personnel

• Good

Charts

• Fix the name for the Bubbling Under Hot 100 and why is a different position listed here then in prose?

• definitely a typo on my part, whoops

• Pipe Disco Top 100 to Dance Club Songs

• done, I also fixed the source to Billboard website

Notes

• Good

References

• Copyvio score looks much too high at 62.7%; cut down quoting from ref 8 to fix this

• I believe that it because of the lyric quotations.

• Cite CMJ as publisher instead on ref 12

• done and added the proper journal (CMJ New Music Report) and the missing page number – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Wikilink Dig! on ref 13
• Pipe Nielsen Business Media, Inc. to Nielsen Holdings on ref 28
• WP:OVERLINK of AllMusic on ref 55
• Cite Rhino Entertainment as publisher instead on ref 57

• above four done

• I have my doubts about refs 63 and 82 for the websites they are being cited via

• I don't have an alternative for 63 so we're just gonna remove it entirely. As for 82, I remove the url but unfortunately don't have page numbers available (I know it's on there because I've seen photos but I haven't been able to find the entire issue free online (annoyingly)) – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Per WP:RSP, ref 64 could be replaced or at least attribute this to TMZ

• attributed it

• Ref 73 is citing the incorrect archive-url

• oh yeah. The date even says 2010 so idk how I missed that. Fixed

• Cite Digital Spy as publisher instead on ref 77
• Wikilink Ultimate Classic Rock on ref 83

• both done

Sources

• Pipe Titan Books to Titan Publishing Group

• done

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; nice job on this one and I'll review another soon! --K. Peake 12:04, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

• Kyle Peake Thanks for reviewing Kyle. I have some points above that need addressing. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• Zmbro I see no issues left, apart from that the TMZ sentence should be reworded in a way that makes it clear 2022 was in the past and shouldn't you cut down on quoting of direct lyrics for copyvio? --K. Peake 07:42, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

• Kyle Peake I've done some trimming of quotes and the TMZ thing as there's no point to have it. I found the copyvio detector has a problem with the "When I originally wrote about Major Tom" quote (it's from the NME interview but also included in the NPR source). The NPR thing also tags other things like the album title and such. What do you think should be the solution here? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 01:52, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Zmbro ✓ Pass now, it is fine when the copyvio coincidentally matches! --K. Peake 09:30, 14 January 2023 (UTC)