Talk:ArmaLite AR-15

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Why not mention and link to the major incidents the weapon has been linked to?[edit]

It is information contained elsewhere on Wikipedia, but only in pieces as I don't think it's aggregated anywhere, yet it's certainly something of public interest.

207.172.175.134 (talk) 10:17, 22 January 2017 (UTC) RC[reply]

Good question. The AR-15 related pages are very muddled. For reasons which no one can explain, there is no AR-15 page to cover the entire scope of the weapon type. This article refers only to a rifle which was the progenitor of the type, but which never really went into production. Felsic2 (talk) 18:30, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Armalite produced over 100,000 of these before the Colt rifles were made, but what do I know?--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 04:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It'd be great to get that info into the article. I guess part of the muddle is that Colt apparently made and sold "Armalite AR15" rifles for some years before switching over to M16s and Colt AR-15 models. Felsic2 (talk) 20:09, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The rifle didn't shoot anyone. A human pulled the trigger. Also the title is "ArmaLite_AR15" not "AR15 Style Rifle." A new page would look great. Link it at the bottom of this one. [is the wiki help for new titles] Also, review [help NPOV/Impartial Tone] to help your title be defined by the information you choose to include. For example, events spanning 1990-current years, injured or deceased count over x, events the US President ordered a lowered the flag. If it looks good, I'd love to help. Gun nuts are just as upset the many laws to own these rifles were not followed.Boxofmatches (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well that comment didn't age well, now did it? Four years on, and countless school massacre later, the ArmaLite AR-15 remains the preferred weapon of choice for sickos wanting to kill children in their classrooms. This was from April 2022: Fact check: AR-15 style rifles used in 11 mass shootings since 2012 146.200.202.126 (talk) 13:47, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PLease read wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 13:58, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Armalite AR-15 and Colt Pages M-16[edit]

I understand the development process that led to the military M16 rifle and what a complicated web that history has woven, but do we really need separate Armalite AR-15 and Colt M-16 pages? When you throw in the fact that, for obvious reasons, there is a Colt AR-15 page as well for later civilian models it seems more likely to confuse readers in spite of what I'm sure were good intentions. I think it would make a great deal more sense to have the Armalite AR-15 information contained within the Colt M-16 page since, ultimately, the development of this weapons system under both of these names if what ultimately led to the eventually successful M-16 design under Colt. Comments from other editors?Syr74 (talk) 01:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm arguing for a central "AR-15" article that could cover the generic weapons type and give the overall story of its development. Right now that information is spread across multiple pages that often repeat or contradict each other. See Talk:AR-15 variant# Move to AR-15. Felsic2 (talk) 20:20, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Syr74: did you mean M-16 rifle or Colt AR-15, or both? I proposed merging the latter with this one, independently, at Talk:AR-15#Alternative proposal, but RAF910 and Limpscash disagree. Perhaps someone can merge the two discussions to have a centralized place to discuss. No such user (talk) 09:27, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose...While these firearms share a common history, they are different rifles and should have separate articles. If someone wants to expand the history section of the ArmaLite and Colt's Manufacturing Company pages, that should suffice.--RAF910 (talk) 16:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose to all of the above.--Limpscash (talk) 04:00, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. After giving the issue some consideration I agree with RAF910 that both pages, Armalite AR-15 and Colt AR-15, should be maintained as separate but improved articles. I also agree with Felsic2 that the history of the platform itself is without question extremely difficult for the layman to figure out based upon these two articles as they now stand and II am not at all certain that simple improvements to both would suffice to resolve this as we can't really know that until those improvements are made. It may suffice, it may not, but in my opinion it's a good place to start. Also, I nearly forgot to say that the articles do appear to be much easier to read in general since the last time I perused them, but improvement could certainly still be made. Syr74 (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Missing source[edit]

Which source, used several times for refs 30-40, is "Rose"? The bibliography is missing, and it should be linked via {{harv}} or {{sfn}} . That's certainly Alexander Rose (author), but he authored several books. Maybe American Rifle: A Biography? No such user (talk) 12:00, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes...American Rifle: A Biography, by Alexander Rose, Random House Publishing Group, 2009. I'm updating now.--RAF910 (talk) 16:46, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2018[edit]

By wikipedias very own definition (and the proper definition everywhere else too) the AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle yet this article claims it is. It is not, it has never been. Yet the very first section claims so. This "The AR-15 was designed above all else to be a lightweight assault rifle, " Should be changed to "The AR-15 was designed above all else to be a lightweight rifle, " for this to be accurate content. Many references included even from wikipedia itself stating an assault rifle must have "the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire" Leonard wood (talk) 21:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC) Leonard wood (talk) 21:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC) [1] [2] [3] Leonard wood (talk) 17:31, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:10, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Assault rifle".
  2. ^ "What is and is NOT an Assault Rifle".
  3. ^ "Assault rifle | Definition, Examples, Facts, & History".

ArmaLite AR-15 vs generic AR-15[edit]

The AR-15 is the basis for the design of the M-16 Rifle, the commercially available AR-15 rifle sold to citizens is not select fire, meaning it is incapable of burst nor automatic fire modes.

There is no such weapon classification as "assault rifle" in military or firearms nomenclature, that term was coined by a civilian and in regards to civilian weapons that look like military weapons but are not fully automatic; AR-15 (civilian - semi auto) vs M-16 (military - full auto). Arazmus (talk) 22:43, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Arazmus: Hi, I revised the lead to highlight that this is about military version ArmaLite AR-15, not the generic AR-15: diff-link. I'm not sure if I understand the comment: "There is no such weapon classification as "assault rifle" in military..." There's a wiki page on assault rifle, which says "This article is about automatic firearms used by many military organizations..." Could you clarify? --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:56, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"There is no such weapon classification as "assault rifle" in military or firearms nomenclature" - as a blanket statement, I don't think you can say that with any certainty. How can you possibly know, that no military (in the world), or industrial/commercial nomenclature, literature, policies & guidelines, inventories, directories, manuals, pamphlets, etc., etc. use the term "assault rifle", anywhere, when referring to non-civilian, mil-spec, burst and/or full-auto capable rifles and carbines? But I do agree that in reference to semi-auto only civilian variants, the term "assault rifle" does not apply, and should not be used here in that respect. While the media and some anti-gun commentators and politicians do use the term in reference to civilian semi-auto sport rifles, and often, it is usually out ignorance or deliberate sensationalization. But we should be better than that. - theWOLFchild 21:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Department of Defense document that is referenced as #1 nowhere states that the AR-15 is an "Assault Weapon", it is referred to as a "weapon","effective weapon", "basic shoulder weapon","suitable basic weapon","combat weapon","small arms weapon" NEVER Assault Weapon. In fact the Defense Department's description of what type of weapon they wanted developed is "This weapon was developed by the Armalite Division of Fairchild Aircraft Corporation to meet the military characteristics for a lightweight rifle utilising the high velocity small caliber principle." The description needs to be changed from assault rifle to multi-purpose. The description of a weapon depends on it's use, used to defend it is a defensive weapon, used to protect, it is a protective weapon, used for sniper purposes it is a sniper weapon, used for hunting, it is a hunting rifle, used for target practice, it is a target weapon. The description in this article is based on politics not facts. And it definitely is not based on this DOD document, I searched for the term "Assault Weapon", "Assault Rifle" and neither combination exists in the document that is used to call the AR-15 and "Assault Weapon", the only time "Assault" is used is based on what the unit was tasked to do, others were tasked as combat units. 66.68.178.180 (talk) 02:19, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The term "assault rifle" was coined by US Army intelligence in 1944, in reports on the StG44, notably in the widely disseminated article "Carbine gets a promotion", refering to the change in nomenclature from MP43/44 to StG 44. By and large, the US Army is not generally regarded as a civilian organization, rather, it is a military one. Many militaries explicitly use the term "Assault Rifle" in their language, such as StG77, StG 90 and so on. Psaccani (talk) 06:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AR-15 Is Not An Assault Rifle[edit]

By Wikipedia's own definition, the ArmaLite AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It is not a select-fire weapon, it is not fully automatic in any way and is not in use by the military. Therefore, any and all references to "assault rifle" needs to be removed or replaced with "modern sporting rile" to ensure the standards that Wikipedia strives for. I would edit the faulty definition myself, however the page is currently locked from editing. ToddlyC (talk) 00:59, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle ToddlyC (talk) 01:00, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ToddlyC: I'm not trying to be mean, but have you even read the article? The lead (introduction) clearly explains that this article is about the original AR-15 that was the precursor to the M16, and was select fire. The civilian AR-15s that came afterwards aren't fully automatic. It is confusing, but reading the lead should have cleared that distiction up. If you had read the lead before and still did not realize the difference, how can we make the distinction clearer? Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 20:35, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The source listed in the article that claims that it is a rifle and the only mention of the word assault comes from a bayonet course. So ethier the correct citation needs to be used or context needs to reflect the citation Cliss (talk) 13:04, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requests for page protection[edit]

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. I have requested that this page be Indefinitely semi-protected, due to persistent disruptive editing + edit warring + socking by IP users.--RAF910 (talk) 17:47, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. I have requested that this page be Indefinitely semi-protected, due to persistent disruptive editing by IP users. Again.--RAF910 (talk) 18:04, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2018[edit]

AR-15 rifles are not assault rifles. There are no such things as assault rifles, so I would like to change that in the beginning. Assault rifles is a term created by politicians, anti-gun protestors, and video games, not the actual people who make them. AR means Armalite Rifle. So an AR-15 is an Armalite Rifle (company) (model) 15, not assault rifle (model) 15. Please change that. That is all I request. Anonymous123004 (talk) 15:09, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Please, 1) Be precise about the change you want to make; 2) For a change like this that's probably going to be controversial, establish a consensus on the talk page first; and 3) Provide reliable sources for your claims. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 15:44, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And please read this article completely, and Assault rifle and Assault weapon also. Then at least you'll be able to make an informed request. - BilCat (talk) 00:22, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The term assault rifle was used in 1944 by US Army intelligence in a widely disseminated article "Carbine gets a promotion", describing the change in nomenclature from MP43/44 to StG44. That's the first known reference in English to an Assault Rifle. You are confusing "Assault Weapon", a term coined by gun control advocates to describe self loading conversions of Assault Rifle designs, such as Colt's AR-15 Sporter series. The Colt AR-15 is an Assault Rifle, the Colt AR-15 Sporter is *not*, but it does fall under the "Assault Weapon" term. Sturmgewehr literally means Assault Rifle and has been the German language military term for Assault Rifles since 1944 with the StG44, current Assault Rifles designated as such include StG77, though in many cases, the abbreviation used may differ, such as StGw90 versus SG550 and StGw57 versus StG. Assault Rifle is a term used in military small arms and it is a term that may be properly applied to several million Colt AR-15, but not to the Colt AR-15 Sporter, which is a self loader. I'm sorry that reality does not comply with your prejudices, but that can't be helped. Psaccani (talk) 07:32, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

.223 vs 5.56[edit]

This article currently suggests that .223 and 5.56 are the same round. I know they are very similar and largely interchangeable but since the .223 article says they aren't the same shouldn't we be consistent? .223_Remington#.223_Remington_vs._5.56×45mm_NATO_chambers Springee (talk) 18:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm are the same round. The 5.56x45mm NATO is slightly different and was not developed until 1980, long after the ArmaLite AR-15 was replaced by the M16. Yes, I know it's confusing. It seems everything about the AR-15 is confusing.--RAF910 (talk) 19:03, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2019[edit]

Please disambiguate the difference between the Armalite AR-15, which was automatic and never sold to the public, and the "Colt Armalite AR-15" and other subsequent semi-automatics. This might be done most simply by changing "is" to "was" in the various references to the former throughout the article. This would not change the content beyond clarifying that the Armalite AR-15 has not been made or sold since about 1965. This would make a clear distinction between a long-discontinued weapon and what are currently known as AR-15s, a necessary distinction between the automatic which has not been sold for over 50 years (making it a "was") and the semi-automatic that has been being sold during that past 50 years (making the semi-automatic the only "is").

This edit is advised because people coming to the page looking for a definition and reading only the first paragraph or two before becoming bored and leaving, do in fact leave with a serious misconception which they then take out into the world and discussion groups and either perpetuate an unfortunate existing myth, or trigger an argument.

Thank you! AEscirian (talk) 12:27, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 15:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2019[edit]

The A-15 is not an assault rifle. No serious country would arm their military with them. The term "assault Rifle" is a buzz term, to stir up emotion, That was coined by the anti gun movement.(it demonizes an in animate object) This term has been debated for years, and if it is retained in this page, it will underscore Wikipedia's hard left political, anti gun slant. Wikipedia's reputation as an unbiased Educational source, will be tainted. 73.103.18.175 (talk) 03:07, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Melmann 15:07, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2020[edit]

This page is misleading. If you deal in facts you should be clear that the AR-15 is not a military weapon and never has been. It is a semi automatic version of a military style rifle and should not be represented as a "weapon of war" when it factually is NOT. What lead me here was the question "Is the AR-15 a weapon of war" and this page did nothing to dispel the notion that it is used by the military. In fact, it did the opposite. It would be nice to see some clarity for honesty sake. Thanks. 2601:780:C201:3DF1:34CE:B0C6:1218:B059 (talk) 08:10, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where do we say its a weapon of war?Slatersteven (talk) 08:31, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBriTalk 14:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is a perpetual request made by people who haven't read the article carefully enough to comprehend that this article is about the original AR-15 select fire rifle that went into production as the M16. Thus they conflate it with the Colt AR-15 semi-automatic rifle that came later. It's extremely confusing, but there's nothing we can say that isn't already explained in the lead of this article. - BilCat (talk) 15:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This too is in error. The M16 and XM16E1 designations were made in early December for application to Colt Armalite/Colt AR-15 models 601, 602 and 604 for M16 and to model 603 in the case of XM16E1, the month after the US Army AR-15 Procurement office signed for large scale production of Colt AR-15 models 603 and 604. The select fire versions for US and foreign militaries continued to be Colt AR-15, unless procured from the US government. Later the Colt AR15 model R6000 (based on model 601) tool room sample received an opinion letter stating it to be outside of the NFA (ie, not a machine gun) in December 1963, with some 20 quickly made as Christmas presents for Colt's board of directors. The Colt AR15 weapon system was expanded to include LMGs, GPMGs, SMG, grenade launchers and belt-fed Heavy Assault Rifles and even select fire survival rifles. The products continued to be marked and marketed as Colt AR-15 into the late seventies. Commercial (ie, civil) sales of select fire AR-15 also continued into the late seventies. For example, model 614 was a civil select fire identical to the model 603 M16A1, except for the high quality finish and for being marked as Colt AR-15 614, without any marking in the M16 series applied.
"Colt AR-15" does not indicate a self loader, it was applicable to all AR-15 derivatives from January 1961 to 1977, whether automatic (only), select fire or self loader. Psaccani (talk) 04:41, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AR-15 is not capable of select fire.[edit]

AR-15 is not capable of select fire. Kwgriessel (talk) 02:13, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You obviously haven't read the article for comprehension. After you do, you'll hopefully understand why your statement is incorrect as written. BilCat (talk) 04:09, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2021[edit]

Change everytime this rifle is listed or called an "assault rifle" to semi-automatic rifle.

There is no such thing as an "assault rifle / weapon"2607:FEA8:D00:F000:A1E7:82BD:114C:6E52 (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RS think there is.Slatersteven (talk) 14:32, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - BilCat (talk) 19:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

what does 15 mean[edit]

What does the number come from? It doesn't say. WakandaQT (talk) 03:25, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's just part of a numerical sequence used by the ArmaLite company to designate their models. It's not really something that requires an explanation beyond that. See ArmaLite#Products for the whole list. BilCat (talk) 05:02, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, it's an arbitrary numerical designation, not a sequence. Exactly how it worked, or, indeed, if there was a system behind it is unknown. But the AR7 was developed *after* the AR15, for instance, so it isn't safe to assume it is a numerical sequence. Psaccani (talk) 04:11, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2021[edit]

Change select fire to semi automatic in the introduction. 108.1.80.82 (talk) 18:55, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Please review the FAQ at the top of the page. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 19:20, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2022[edit]

This article list the AR-15 as an Assault Rifle. However, an assault rifle MUST have Selective Fire, which the AR-15 does not. Please review the US Army's definition of an Assault Rifle. 2600:8801:8D19:2600:9013:1D61:BED6:976 (talk) 19:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The "ArmaLite AR-15" is a select-fire rifle, as stated and cited in the lead sentence of the article. There's nothing that needs to be changed. BilCat (talk) 20:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is not your normal civilian AR-15; this is the military rifle that they're based on. It was used on the ground in Vietnam, is capable of selective fire, and has been out of production for almost 60 years. Roll 3d6 (talk) 22:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2022[edit]

Remove select fire

[1] Southern052 (talk) 04:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is not select fire Southern052 (talk) 04:22, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SpinningCeres 04:35, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia articles can't be used as sources, and the Armalite AR-15 isn't even mentioned there. BilCat (talk) 04:40, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_fire

“Select fire”[edit]

The AR-15 is not and never was a “select fire” firearm. The M-16 is select fire. 2603:9001:8900:1F7D:6010:C825:929A:7AE (talk) 19:20, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the FAQ at the top of this page. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 19:36, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source 31 Issue[edit]

Source 31 (Bruce, Robert. "M14 vs. M16 in Vietnam". Small Arms Review.) connects to no functioning pages or documents. Requesting for the Time being until the document is recovered or the website linked (smallarmsreview.com) returns to operating function that it is removed as a reliable source. GigaMaxon (talk) 17:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@GigaMaxon:, the source is working for me at this time. BilCat (talk) 03:13, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be an issue involving add blocker. Any future readers can disregard this section. GigaMaxon (talk) 06:42, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about it. Confirming whether or not others have the same issues is an important step to finding a solution to the problem. BilCat (talk) 06:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do not get Note 2[edit]

The article starts with «The ArmaLite AR-15» and a Note 2 that explains us that AR means ArmaLite Riffle. Is this a joke? I mean, is this for real this riffle is called ArmaLite ArmaLite Riffle Fifteen? ArmaLite twice?

--77.75.179.1 (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is explaining what the "AR" in the designation "AR-15" stands for. The "Armalite" in the title means that's the company that produced the models discussed in this article, as the Colt AR-15 article covers the models produced by Colt. But it's not called the "ArmaLite ArmaLite Rifle Fifteen" by anyone, just as the "Airbus A320" isn't the "Airbus Airbus Three Hundred and Twenty" by anyone, at least not in English. BilCat (talk) 02:14, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
RS say that AR is derived from either ArmaLite rifle or ArmaLite. It's read out loud as the letters AR, and is really more of a model number than an abbreviated name. So, you'd say "ArmaLite A.R. fifteen" when reading it out loud. Roll 3d6 (talk) 07:57, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2023[edit]

The words "an innovative" are duplicated near the beginning of para 4 of the History section.

Currently reads: "The ArmaLite AR-10 featured an innovativean innovative combination of a straight-line barrel/stock design, a new patent-filed gas-operated bolt, forged aluminum alloy receivers and with" Reve etrange (talk) 07:17, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Cannolis (talk) 08:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2023[edit]

The AR-15 is not a select fire weapon. No version of the AR-15 was sold as a select fire weapon. The very first line is incorrect with historical fact. Select fire is defined as having more operational modes than single shot and safe. The selector switch is a safety selector that only operates single fire and safety modes. To be select fire the switch would have to include a burst fire or full-automatic selection wich is not available on the AR-15. Machine guns (M-16 and M-4) that use a modified design of the AR-15 are select fire but are different in design to allow for those selections. Machine guns are not AR-15's. This is the same distinction that the M1 Garand and the M-14 are classified as separate models. The M-14 is a modified version of the M1 Garand that has a selector switch that includes full-automatic fire. The M-14 was designed after the M1 in the same way the M-16 was designed after the AR-15. Legal and historical facts matter when defining an item such as a weapon.

Please remove "select fire" and replace it with "Semi-automatic". 24.89.36.116 (talk) 21:58, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. BilCat (talk) 22:08, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You've got it backwards.
The AR-15 was a select fire assault rifle intended for and marketed exclusively for military purposes from 1957 (at the request of US Army Infantry Command) until 1964. After some 20,000 had been completed for military sales, a modified self loading conversion of the AR-15 model 601 was completed in December 1963, as existing military contracts were anticipated to be fulfilled in November 1963. But in November 1963, before existing military contracts had been completed, a large new military contract was signed, leading to the production of some two million select fire AR-15. Thus the need for a civil self loader to keep the line open pending further military sales was no longer there. However, as the line had enough capacity to produce at a rate four times that required for the 1963-1967 contracts, the R6000 self loader proceeded in 1964 after military production rates were met, using the considerable surplus of unmachined model 601 forgings and other parts no longer acceptable for military contracts, such as flash hiders. This turned a loss into a profit.
Try to understand that the US Army designations in the M16 series were applied to both Colt-Armalite and Colt AR-15, which at the time (December 1963) already had nearly 20,000 in military service, with UK, Australia, Singapore, Malaya and Indonesia all having them in service before the first US service (which was the US Navy for special warfare) adopted the AR-15 in 1961. Psaccani (talk) 05:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2023[edit]

The ar-15 was never used in the militar it is a civilian riffle it is also not a select fire riffle. 2603:300A:17B6:1000:90D3:D416:3C4F:F241 (talk) 14:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do we say it is? Slatersteven (talk) 15:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@IP: please carefully read the FAQ at the top of this page, as it addresses your issue. BilCat (talk) 21:11, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2023[edit]

Change assault rifle to assault weapon. By definition, it cannot be interchanged from semi-automatic to full automatic. This is a requirement when defining a gun as an assault rifle. 71.80.53.30 (talk) 19:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: see FAQ Cannolis (talk) 20:46, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh. We have a a great big red warning at the top of this page, and they still won't read/follow it. BilCat (talk) 21:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know, I kinda feel like the FAQ is almost more there for responding editors to save time on a response. Which these drive by complainants almost never read either. Cannolis (talk) 23:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. BilCat (talk) 01:48, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 July 2023[edit]

It claims the ar-15 rifle is select fire The ar-15 is not select fire it's Simi automatic only Raid the bat (talk) 15:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Read note 1, RS say it is. Slatersteven (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: Yep, the citation given in that note says:
[NRA] staff had conducted tests on the AR-15 rife while it was still in its infancy in 1959. Their initial impressions reported favorably on the light recoil, functioning and reliability. Their negative comments were critical of the high rate of fire in the automatic mode, which made the rifle difficult to control without practice. Xan747 (talk) 15:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Colt's obtaining of AR-10 and AR-10 rights.[edit]

The statement "In 1959, ArmaLite—now frustrated with the lack of results and suffering ongoing financial difficulties—sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt." is not correct.

Colt's obtained a non-transferable, non-exclusive worldwide license to use the patents, pending patents and TDP of the AR-10 and AR-15 on 7 January 1959 from Fairchild (not the Armalite subsidary). Artillerie Inrichtingen still had a similar non-exclusive license running to 4 July 1962, which included all the patents and pending patents used for the AR-15, but only the AR-10 TDP. A. I. surrendered their license early, in 1961, allowing Fairchild (Fairchild retained the AR-10 and AR-15 rights when they divested ArmaLite in July 1961) to sign a non-transferable exclusive license with Colt's on 12 December 1961. Most of these details may be found in Cooper-MacDonald Inc. v. United States, 8 July 1977.

So Fairchild sold non-exclusive rights, as opposed to "the rights" to Colt's in 1959. It is actually important to note the distinction that the rights were non-exclusive and that ArmaLite remained perfectly at liberty to continue to use the relevant patents. Because it is claimed that the AR-16 was modified to use a more conventional external short stroke gas piston design as the patents for the internal gas piston had been sold. This simply is not true, all that happened in 1959 was that a second non-exclusive license for the internal gas piston patent had been sold. Psaccani (talk) 06:26, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FAQ is in error, needs editing[edit]

"The ArmaLite AR-15 or Colt ArmaLite AR-15 refers to the original experimental military version manufactured between 1959 and 1964, which was later adapted into a large variety of semi-automatic civilian rifles. The ArmaLite AR-15 remains the only assault rifle that Colt has ever sold under the "AR-15" name; the civilian/police version based on it is called the Colt AR-15 and is not an assault rifle. Since 1965, the AR-15 trademark is only used for modern sporting rifles."

Except for the first sentence, this is mostly wrong. The first sentence is only a little wrong, in that the Colt Armalite AR-15 entered regular inventory in the UK, Australia, Singapore, Malaya, Indonesia and lastly, the USN and USAF - it wasn't experimental, it was the first service version. The Colt AR-15 Rifle was an assault rifle sold by Colt's from December 1961 to 1977 - the Civil self loading version was the Colt AR-15 Sporter. Commercial select fire sales to military and civilian customers were under the Colt AR-15 name, with the Colt AR-15 weapons system being the marketing name for many derived military versions, such as the Colt AR-15 Heavy Assault Rifle (a belt fed section automatic weapon), Colt AR-15 MG (functionally, a GPMG, except for the limitations of the round) and so on. The only Colt AR-15 Weapons system components adopted by the US services in volume where the AR-15 rifle in two main versions and the Colt AR-15 SMG in two versions, all four of which were included in the TDP licensed to the US government in 1967. Post 1977, use of the Colt AR-15 weapons system name died out. You are confusing Colt AR-15 with Colt AR-15 Sporter, only the latter was exclusively a self loader. Clearly, the notion that the AR-15 trademark was only used on self loaders after 1965 is a nonsense.

You need to emphasis that if Colt AR-15 Sporter is truncated to Colt AR-15 it does indeed include assault rifles, machine guns, SMG etc... as well as self loaders, instead of inventing a nonsense history. I'm afraid it is a battle between those with an understanding of the subject and two competing ignorances, which might be termed as "gun grabbers" versus "gun enthusiasts", who are both wrong, but in different ways. One seeks to delegitimise sporting versions of the AR-15 by confusing them with military versions, the other seeks to rewrite history to deal with that inconvenience or is totally ignorant of it.

In any case, providing an incorrect answer to a FAQ is not the best way to deal with these problems. Psaccani (talk) 08:04, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

soRUCES? Slatersteven (talk) 11:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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