Talk:Ardhanarishvara/GA1
GA Review[edit]
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Reviewer: Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Ties between India and Greece[edit]
There is nothing in this article about Ardhanarishvara as a contemporary deity to be worshipped, which this god is. This article needs some content about Ardhanarishvara in modern society.
The lede and the "origins and early images" section both say "The concept of Ardhanarishvara originated in Kushan and Greek cultures simultaneously" but nowhere in this article is anything about the Greek sources stated. Where is such a figure present in Greek culture? Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- "the androgynous myths of the Greek Hermaphroditus and Phrygian Agdistis"--Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
LGBT issues[edit]
"The hermaphrodite, the homosexual and the transvestite have a symbolic value in Tantra and are considered privileged beings, images of the Ardhanarishvara. The deity is also a tutelary deity of eunuchs." I think that these sentences ought to be expanded into its own section - I came to this page for information on LGBT issues in India and I would suspect that other people find their way here for this purpose. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- Though westerners often relate Ardhanarishvara with LGBT due to the androgyny, mainstream Hindu scriptures do not relate relate him with Hijras. But Hijras do worship him and only Tantra sees them as embodiment of Ardhanarishvara. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- There has been an established LGBT community presenting itself for international attention through government registered organizations since the 1980s, and transgender organizations for much longer than that. I feel that contemporary practice is important regardless of whether it has a basis in traditional scriptures or not. Unfortunately I have no sources describing the use of this god's iconography as a symbol of LGBT rights or lifestyle, but yet I know it is used in this way by Indian people. I do not accept the idea that the association of this god with LGBT issues is a Western projection, even though people like Swami Ramdev have said so. Someone else tagged this article as being of LGBT interest; I would like to ask whether anyone else knows of sources about this god and alternative sexuality. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:18, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- "LGBT issues in India" is an WP:UNDUE here. Ardhanarishvara is discussed in LBGT books as a symbol of androgyny - that is personified in the Hijras, however mainstream Hinduism as well as books written on the deity or Shiva do not relate Ardhanarishvara with LBGT. In folk Hinduism, Hijras do participate in rituals associated with folk deities like Aravan, an article where I am the main contributor, Yellamma and Bahuchara Mata, but Ardhanarishvara is not a folk deity. Ardhanarishvara is a mainstream Hindu deity, who is used mostly as a decoration-al motif to adorn Shiva temple walls and in very few temples, is worshipped but by Brahmin men, not Hijras. The fact that Ardhanarishvara is worshipped by Hijras, is stated in the article.--Redtigerxyz Talk 17:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- At this time I do not have sources describing this figure's relationship to LGBT issues. It is original research, but at gay pride events in India people use this god as a champion of their cause. As more pride events are happening I would expect this use to be more documented, but if no sources are currently discovered then let's leave this issue until or unless they are. Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- "LGBT issues in India" is an WP:UNDUE here. Ardhanarishvara is discussed in LBGT books as a symbol of androgyny - that is personified in the Hijras, however mainstream Hinduism as well as books written on the deity or Shiva do not relate Ardhanarishvara with LBGT. In folk Hinduism, Hijras do participate in rituals associated with folk deities like Aravan, an article where I am the main contributor, Yellamma and Bahuchara Mata, but Ardhanarishvara is not a folk deity. Ardhanarishvara is a mainstream Hindu deity, who is used mostly as a decoration-al motif to adorn Shiva temple walls and in very few temples, is worshipped but by Brahmin men, not Hijras. The fact that Ardhanarishvara is worshipped by Hijras, is stated in the article.--Redtigerxyz Talk 17:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- There has been an established LGBT community presenting itself for international attention through government registered organizations since the 1980s, and transgender organizations for much longer than that. I feel that contemporary practice is important regardless of whether it has a basis in traditional scriptures or not. Unfortunately I have no sources describing the use of this god's iconography as a symbol of LGBT rights or lifestyle, but yet I know it is used in this way by Indian people. I do not accept the idea that the association of this god with LGBT issues is a Western projection, even though people like Swami Ramdev have said so. Someone else tagged this article as being of LGBT interest; I would like to ask whether anyone else knows of sources about this god and alternative sexuality. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:18, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- Though westerners often relate Ardhanarishvara with LGBT due to the androgyny, mainstream Hindu scriptures do not relate relate him with Hijras. But Hijras do worship him and only Tantra sees them as embodiment of Ardhanarishvara. --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Temples[edit]
Are there major temples dedicated to Ardhararishvara? If so, what are their names and where are they? Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- No major temples dedicated to Ardhanarishvara.--Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Contemporary practice[edit]
The major reason why I think this article does not meet GA criteria at this time is that it is written as historical documentation and not as something which is important within living society. This is not just an art figure which is depicted in a certain way, has certain postures, and exists as statues excavated from various sites. Before any of these things, Ardhararishvara is the recipient of people's religious devotion. The article hardly conveys this point. I have to say I have no idea where to find a source for describing the relationship between this god and contemporary people. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:48, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for your input. I will try to incorporate a Worship section, but Ardhanarishvara is mostly an iconographical form of Shiva that adorns his temples and does not enjoy widespread worship. Similar iconographical forms of Shiva due exist and include Bhikshatana, kankala murti, --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
- I would help you any way I can. I think I may be asking for information for which there are no sources. It is easy to say that something exists if it is found in a source, but if it is not found in a set of sources, then it is hard to say whether it exists in other unknown sources or whether it exists and no one has written about it. I work with the gay community in India and among people I know this god is respected especially, but that is original research. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:18, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for your input. I will try to incorporate a Worship section, but Ardhanarishvara is mostly an iconographical form of Shiva that adorns his temples and does not enjoy widespread worship. Similar iconographical forms of Shiva due exist and include Bhikshatana, kankala murti, --Redtigerxyz Talk 16:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)