Talk:Andrew Brons

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"British Democratic Party"[edit]

The article was amended to say that Brons had become founding president of the British Democratic Party and provided a link to a right wing site which supported this. Dated 4 December 2012, it claims that "The new party has been registered with the Electoral Commission as the British Democratic Party". Unfortunately, the Electoral Commission will not allow two parties with the same name: a British Democratic Party was registered on 23 May 2011, with Adrian Davies as Leader and Treasurer and Raymond Heath as the nominating officer, and a registered address at PO Box 63718, London SW3 9AT. (See Electoral Commission party search page.) This suggests that the source is not accurate, at least as far as the party name is concerned. Until this can be resolved, I have reverted the edit and hope that some definitive reference can be found. Emeraude (talk) 10:08, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox: predecessor/successor[edit]

This is re-posted from the Talk:Nick Griffin#Infobox: predecessor/successor - it is the same issue, though the names have changed:
MEPs are elected in multi-member constituencies. In a single seat constituency it is perfectly reasonable to say Fred Bloggs was preceded as the MP by Jim Bean and succeeded by Mr Kipling. In multi-member constiuencies it is not. For example, consider the lists of elected members for North West England:

2004	2009	2014
R Atkins Con C Davies LD D Dover Con S Karim LD A McCarthy Lab D Sumberg Con J Whittaker UKIP T Wynn Lab	R Atkins Con C Davies LD J Foster Con N Griffin BNP S Karim LD A McCarthy Lab P Nuttall UKIP B Simpson Lab	L Bours UKIP J Foster Con T Griffin Lab S Karim LD M Khan Lab P Nuttall UKIP J Ward Lab S Woolfe UKIP

Between 2004 and 2009, there were five changes. Between 2009 and 2014, there were also five changes. While it's true that in 2009 the BNP took a seat from the Conservatives it is not possible to say which one, especially given that the candidates changed in the meantime and one sitting MEP changed parties! In 2014, it's even less clear: BNP lost a seat, but UKIP gained two, so which of these new two UKIP MEPs is Griffin's successor?!?! The article says Bours. Why not Woolfe? It makes no sense at all. Emeraude (talk) 16:03, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have explained this on Talk:Nick Griffin but I suppose I should do a Yorkshire breakdown as well. The line of succession of these seats is traceable, therefore we should continue to include "predecessors" and "successors". There is a table on all 12 of the UK constituencies that shows this line of succession. Here is the one for the Yorkshire (copied from the article):

Returned members[edit]

MEPs for Yorkshire and the Humber, 1999 onwards
Election	1999 (5th parliament)		2004 (6th parliament)	2009 (7th parliament)		2014 (8th parliament)
Election	1999 (5th parliament)		2004 (6th parliament)
MEP Party	Diana Wallis¹				Rebecca Taylor	Mike Hookem UKIP
MEP Party	Edward McMillan-Scott Conservative (1999–2009) Liberal Democrat (2010–)					Amjad Bashir UKIP
MEP Party	Robert Goodwill Conservative		Godfrey Bloom UKIP (2004–13) Independent (2013–)			Jane Collins
MEP Party	Timothy Kirkhope Conservative
MEP Party	Richard Corbett Labour			Andrew Brons British National (2009–12) Independent (2012)^[1] British Democratic Party (2013–) ^[2]^[3]		Richard Corbett Labour
MEP Party	Linda McAvan Labour
MEP Party	David Bowe Labour	Seat abolished

I shall now explain the seat allocation:

1. UKIP topped the poll and therefore get allocated a seat. Jane Collins had been picked as lead candidate to succeed Godfrey Bloom and so she did (fairly simple).

2. Linda McAvan of Labour and Timothy Kirkhope of the Conservatives were standing for re-election and they were both duly re-elected as lead candidates for their parties (fairly simple).

3. Edward McMillan-Scott was the highest scoring and only sitting candidate to lose his seat, this seat therefore gets allocated to the next highest scoring party to be allocated a seat; since UKIP topped the poll and a seat each for UKIP, Lab and Con has already been allocated, the second candidate on the UKIP list, Amjad Bashir is duly elected. So we have covered the first 4 seats pretty simply so far.

4. Both Rebecca Taylor and Andrew Brons were stepping down, therefore leaving 2 vacant seats. In the previous election Richard Corbett hhad been unseated by Andrew Brons: Brons was the sixth candidate on the list and the next party to have been allocated a seat had it not been Brons would have been Corbett. Corbett re-contested the seat left vacant by Brons and Corbett consequently won his seat back.

5. There is still one Vacant seat that needs allocating, so we go back to the D'hondt formula and UKIP have secured enough votes for their Third seat and Mike Hookem is duly elected. The next party eligible for the final seat would have been the Conservatives, Alex Story and had they secured more votes (and or UKIP less votes) it would have been Alex Story that would have taken Rebecca Taylor's old seat.

It is worth pointing out that we have included predecessor and successors for MEPs in office holder boxes for years. In many cases the predecessor had always shown "Position established". However this is the first UK EP election where there have been significant changes, so I do understand the confusion but I do not see it as a reason to remove clearly verifiable information. I hope this explains things, the articles have been restored back to their standard form including "predecessor" and "successor". Many Thanks Owl In The House (talk) 14:57, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, it totally fails to explain things, beyond your strange desire to have Brons preceded by and followed by Corbett. Just because other articles do something, and have done for years, does not make it right. That's lazy arguing. It is nothing to do with verifiable information - I don't question this, but the conclusion drawn from it (i.e a synthesis).I have no confusion that needs understanding; in a multi-member seat in any election, it is impossible to describe anyone as a predecessor, since all are elected en masse; we should be saying that the group as a whole was preceded by, or succeeded by. Nor is the order in which they are allocated seats of any guide, since it is entirely up to parties where on the list they place a particular candidate. Emeraude (talk) 15:19, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "BNP divisions exposed as Andrew Brons resigns". The Guardian. 16 October 2012. Retrieved 7 November 2012.
^ http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/bdp/
^ http://efp.org.uk/building-a-new-party/

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[1] "BNP divisions exposed as Andrew Brons resigns". The Guardian. 16 October 2012. Retrieved 7 November 2012.

[2] ttp://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/bdp/

[3] ttp://efp.org.uk/building-a-new-party/

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