Talk:Air Tractor

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Citation needed etc. (edit from 2020)

@Noha307: I looked a bit into your question (template) when in sentence "Today[when?], Air Tractor produces...", and Citation needed after that. I looked a bit into the history of the changes and found out that a source for that seem to have existed in the article, but was deleted from lead section together with links to sources [1][2] as promotional before in the same set of edits where those two tags were added. If you are still active, I propose replacing info deleted then form intro - as needed - into the body of the article, where you found citation was needed.

If you can't do that, I propose info - then removed as too promotional for lead section - moved to appropriate part of history (together with sources then cited), and the vague Today to be replaced by date when sources supporting that info were published/accessed (2018 for published), as applicable. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 06:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

I recently returned to this page.

When I came to this page in 2022 it was because there were large wildfires in our country Widespread (2000 hectares) wildfire in Slovenian and Italian Karst (y.2022) in difficult terain, that was heavily contested during WW2 and where a lot of unexploded ordnance still existed, so access to terain in fire was not only difficult, but also extremely dangerous. It started near Trieste on Italian side and - caried by the changing winds - also spread far and wide in over the border in Slovenia. Beside effort on the earth in Slovenia and Italy there was cooperative international effort to control spread of wildfire (Slovenia, Italy, Croatia, and other) from the air, mostly by helicopters that needed ground transport of water nearby to be effective, and Canadairs and other airplanes that could take water from the sea in flight and so have much shorter turnaround time. When Slovenia looked for an optimal solution to acquire for that job AirTractor was deemed one of the best solutions.

This article still lacks all mentions of firefighting wildfires from the air, that AirTractors can do.

There is also still suboptimal sourcing: (a citation needed, an unresolved when template, and a citation whose http link is dead, and most of contents of the article was supported by single source).

I'll see what I can do on all of that. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 18:27, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

User:CambridgeBayWeather: From elsewhere, I was used to chose only significant parts of a lengthly source and quote them, to evade overlong quotes and possible plagiarize problem. It was my intention to insert two quotes, each one to separate topic, but I missed in preview they collapsed to look as a single one with part of original text between missing. Probably I had to leave so fast I didn't save the edit with my text being prepared for between those parts. Thanks for spotting and correcting that before I returned.

@single source: I saw that separate articles for each model (or model family) has other sources (as bibliography, refs or both). I copied those bibliographies (which included page no for each model, so rearranging that for inline is more I can commit to just now) and included them here as bibliography section with subsections per type. I also verified some (but not yet all), and those I did passed. I think that at least relieves the single source problem of this article and immediate danger of removing supposedly unsourced contents and I am (boldly) exchanging {{Single source}} template for {{More footnotes}}.

I found I was right that Croatia has several firefighing Air Tractors AT802, and also that after large (ca. 2000 ha) Wildfire in Slovenia and Italy (June 2022) on a terrain, where a lot of unexploded ordnance from WWI still existed on rough terrain, making a lot of it not accessible by land during wildfire, Slovenia bought several Air Tractor AT-802F Fire Bosses too. If there were not already enough citations, I could add that here too, but it now seems unnecesary (it is already cited in article about that model).

When I next find time I intend to also add an inline citation or two where needed, and possibly change some bibliography links to inline citations, but if somebody can do some of that before me (s)he s extremely highly welcome (because it may again take some months before I can return). Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 09:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Intend to add section on global/international use. I already have sources for Slovenia, and for several other EU countries (with intentions to operate Air Tractors of different countries of EU as a coordinated fleet). I've also seen data on Air Tractors in Canada and Australia, but I'll be again mostly away for next month so if anyone else continues befor I can, (s)he's very welcome. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 03:05, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Revert removal of a paragraph

@MilborneOne: I encountered Air Tractors were discussed to be acquired in Slovenia for air firefighting, and found in this article info missing, and removed without sense. A least once first citations were removed from this article, after that same user also removed contents as not cited. I have not yet completed that work (checking out what needs to be restored and finding citation that were there to be found). I didn't even quite finished looking to history yet.

There was also a template about single source citation - and it was really single source left, because other were removed before I restored some of those (and in some cases found others too). I went to find others (including about EU fleet of Air Tractors, and our also Slovenian first pieces aquired, but that's in sl WP article first. If the fact I have been glad we (Slovenia are buying some Air Tractor 802-s (and already got a couple, and it seems for good price, too, and for estimated less cost of operating them...) means I might have a conflict of interest, I can declare a possible conflict of interest.

I was mostly away from my computer last monts, left in my browser the diff of the paragraph you removed, from 2020 where {{when}} template already existed, and where Noha added {{citation needed}}. That paragraph might need to be rephrased, not removed. I just wanted to check everything, and need a non-dealer source for citation too. Actually, I was looking through diffs to see when that text was added, to change the text to "in y xxxx that types were being built..." and to find the citation for then.

And when I went through that, I found that if I can cite manufacturer's site, the paragraph as it is at the moment is exactly correct, today today - may 3, 2024 - Air Tractor sells all listed models, all turbine powered; they currently manufacture all those models. And offer to sell them. If I want to be exact (here in Slovenia, and also in Spain where EU Air Tractor representative resides, is at 02:30 and 01:30 respective local time and still before busines hours, so) they shall be selling them in the morning when they open for business.

To put confusion at rest, when I find when the smallest (402B) got turbine driven I'll change the beginning to "From 200x on, etc.".

It seems also now (2024) at number of Air Tractors AT-802 of all sub types built (if it was not also removed and I din't restore it yet, is also obsolete, because I saw a no of built something around 500, but by the source it already got over 1000, so overall numbers of aircrafts built by Snow and his heirs also need an update. Possibly this should be also reorganized into the table which Noha did, but he also removed a lot of - for me interesting - data doing it, so I'll go through that too. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 22:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Searching for when AT-402 was no more available with piston engine, to rephrase Now, and searching for non-self-published reference, but at this date statement is verifiable. Otherwise, I need to go through bibliography (reliable sources) and create inline citations, but that shall take some time. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 01:10, 3 May 2024 (UTC)