Talk:A. J. Quartermaine

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Marriage to Courtney[edit]

In an attempt to stop the edit warring, does anyone know for sure if Courtney and A.J. divorced when he returned in 2005 (and told her they were still married at that point)? Or was the marriage assumed invalid due to his supposed death, and therefore they were actually still married until her death in 2006? I don't remember for sure myself. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 23:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They divorced around 2005 I believe... Jester66 (talk) 07:25, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they were still married. That's why AJ came back to town in 2005, to tell Courtney that they were still married before she married Jax. Seththomas98 (talk) 04:09, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Space in A. J.?[edit]

I don't think there should be a space in A.J. Even though it stands for his first and middle initial, it is his common nickname. Also most reliable sources, including ABC itself, use "A.J." Is there any opposition to getting rid of the space? Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 23:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

...anyone? If there is no opposition I will move to "A.J." Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 03:52, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I moved it to A.J. as it makes zero sense to have the spaces, and I was automatically reverted. livelikemusic my talk page! 04:37, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Recently? Maybe because A.J. exists and redirects to A. J. so a bot auto-undoes the page move to a circular redirect? It's making my head hurt trying to decide if that even makes sense. I'll try undoing the redirect before moving it and see if that works. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 06:51, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nope didn't work. Maybe because there is an edit history on the page? I asked AniMate to take a look. The page move to A. J. said "naming conventions" but no other explanation, and was back in '07. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 07:10, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This was moved back to A. J. without discussion... please voice any concerns here. "A.J." is his WP:COMMONNAME, despite WP:NCP conventions on the abbreviations of first and middle initials. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 22:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources above to illustrate commonname. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 22:45, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should take this to WP:RM. The name without the space would appear to be the common name to me, but why not go through the official move process just to get this settled. AniMate 23:04, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done, thanks AniMate. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 23:19, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

A. J. Quartermaine → A.J. Quartermaine – While WP:NCP conventions would suggest the use of a space since "A. J." is derived from "Alan James", the character uses "A.J." as his nickname and "A.J." is his WP:COMMONNAME. While WP:INITS states that in most cases a space is used with initials, the first sentence of this section states "Generally, use the most common format of a name used in reliable sources". The network does not use a space, as seen here at the ABC website. Other examples of reliable sources that do not use the space include:

Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 23:18, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Question, but probably going to Oppose - Kelly are you 100% certain that these tv sources treat this name differently from other names on the same websites? If not then it's just a html style issue and none of these are reliable sources per WP:IRS for the statement being made - that there's something different about this individual's initials. As far as WP:INITS although it says "As far as There is no consensus for always using spaces between initials, neither for never using them..." WP:INITS doesn't seem to be well thought through, have opened Talk at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people). In ictu oculi (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I fully understand the question. You're asking if these sources use the space in other cases? Also, just to clarify, my point is that "A.J." is his common first name. As opposed to, for example on the WP:INITS example, "J. S. Bach" as a shortened version of Johann Sebastian Bach. "A.J." is used in prose when referring to his first name. I will look around the sites I mentioned above to see if there are some comparable instances that could help clarify. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 00:29, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, my question for example is does www.tvguide.com use non-spaced initials for everyone, or does it only do it for A.J. Quartermaine? I'm not sure WP:COMMONNAME issue - A.J. or A. J. would both be common name for this fictional character Alan James Quartermaine Jr. who gets addressed verbally as "A.J." by people (apparently, looking at the links), but if addressed as "A. J. Quartermaine", like on an office name plate, and not casually as "A.J." you'd expect normal surname initial spacing. Hence the question about www.tvguide.com. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:45, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the name can be spelled both ways, look at JR Chandler. You could change the page. Jester66 (talk) 05:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I could agree with "AJ Quartermaine" if that is an acceptable solution. It's the space I feel is incorrect. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 02:34, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do understand the question now, but I disagree with the office name plate example. The commonname would be how they are most commonly addressed, not how their name would be on a formal nameplate, no? Also, the link to literary initials given at WP:INITS seems to clearly be full names that are abbreviating first and middle initials, not circumstances where the initials are combined to form a common nickname/first name. Also, thinking about it as much as I am now, AJ may even be short for "Alan Jr." just as much or more so than "Alan James". Would have to look into that more. Back to sources - wanting to avoid any HTML issues I've pulled some sources from Google books:
  • Oppose. A few sources may not list it as such, but the spacing between the initials is correct form. Statυs (talk) 03:06, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Like Status said, spaces is the correct way. Most higher quality articles are like that. In addition, I've read it's the right way. I don't think a move is necessary here. Creativity97 03:11, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. ABC calls him A.J., and we have plenty of reliable sources that say A.J., with no space. "A.J. Quatermaine" is his common name, and that is what the article should be called.Caringtype1 (talk) 03:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are sources for "A.J." alone, there are sources for "A. J. Quatermaine," normally there shouldn't be sources for "A.B. (no space) Surname" in a formal setting, not using WP:INITS anyway. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:42, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - I'm confused on the correct form issue, I understand that it's correct when it's shortening a first and middle initial (as the J. S. Bach example), but I don't see where it specifies about when a first name on its own contains initials. I was looking at other character articles - are they incorrect? 1 - JR Chandler 2 - AJ Chandler 3 - J.T. Hellstrom 4 - C.J. Garrison. Also, for what it's worth I'd like to clarify that it's the majority of sources, not a few. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 03:27, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hmm... now this I am unsure of. My cousin used initials for his name, "TJ", without any periods in it. This is where we look at what the sources say. Is it AJ, or A. J.? Statυs (talk) 03:50, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Most commonly: A.J., Next/sometimes: AJ, Rarely/once in a while: A. J. I figured going by what ABC says would be the best solution (A.J.), but really my main concern is not having the space. (It makes the prose look off when his name is used several times in a paragraph, especially at the beginning or end of sentences. Also, writing nowrap everytime??) Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 04:03, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Kelly, the J. S. Bach title may be a bad example because, unlike e.g. J. K. Rowling, Johann-Sebastian is actually one double-barrelled name not 2 names, it may actually be wrong in the other direction since J.S. is one name not two.
As to 1. JR Chandler 2 - AJ Chandler 3 - J.T. Hellstrom 4 - C.J. Garrison yes they are basically all incorrect per en.wp standard style and WP:INITS. This is probably because WP:BLP doesn't apply to fictional people so there's less application of normal WP:BLP sourcing requirements (you'll notice 3 of those articles have "sources required" tags on them). Also because entertainment sources are casual and inconsistent about real people too. The office name plate is simply to illustrate that written "Dr. A. B. Surname" and verbally "Hi there A.B." are two different things. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:42, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, I've struck through "but probably going to oppose" because you provided a printed source "Who Was Who on Tv, Volume 1, p.526 states "A.J. Quartermaine" whereas on p.527 first column states "Barbara Jean "B. J." Jones" " ..........on that basis no oppose, but sorry can't support either because if this was a real person, a WP:BLP, would still oppose Alan James Surname receiving a title counter WP:INITS. Hope that's okay, Cheers! In ictu oculi (talk) 05:48, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, this makes a little more sense - I believe you are saying that even if kept "A. J. Quartermaine" written in full, when writing "A.J." alone, as in prose, it's okay to omit the space? Also, it would help me understand better if we could forget his middle name starts with a "J" for a minute - say use C.J. Garrison as the example instead, where J stands for Junior, or the example Status mentioned of a person using "TJ", no spaces, as their name, is the space still the convention in WP:INITS? Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 05:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes basically, "A.J." is a nickname, much as "G.W." for George W. Bush‎, and since TV is a visual verbal not written thing naturally names like B. J. Hunnicutt are the WP:COMMONNAME more often than real people. Particularly in entertainment/sports Jay Dee "B.J." Penn - where initials would be Mr. J. D. Penn. But then this a combination of two areas where en.wp is messy. We're messy/confused about WP:INITS and messy/confused about fictional characters. At the end of the day if it isn't a real person I don't think it matters too much. Other than TV article titles being pretty well random and WP:CONSISTENCY not happening. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 06:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose we need to follow our own style guide and not the style guide of other publications. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:22, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per common Wikipedia style. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:47, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for all your explaining. I think I misunderstood in the first place - so this would be correct: "Alan James 'A.J.' Quartermaine is a character whose full name is A. J. Quartermaine but his nickname is spelled A.J. when standalone from his last name." I originally thought it was one or the other, and if the page was "A. J." then the space would have to stay in all cases. If it's just when the full name is mentioned, I can see where it's a style/MoS rather than commonname issue. I would be okay with withdrawing the page move if this is the case. Is it possible to mention in the description of the discussion close that "A.J." standalone does not keep the space? Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 17:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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