Talk:1949–1956 Palestinian expulsions

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Neutrality[edit]

As the forced expulsions continued throughout the Peace negotiations and well into 1949 going up to the Suez crisis it is POV to suggest that 1948 was the final exodus of the Palestinian Arabs....the UN didn't stop counting the refugees in 1948...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Really ?

the pov is rather not using Benny Morris to write such an article and not to provide any single wp:rs secondary source using the word exodus to talk about these events.

Ceedjee (talk) 09:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Benny is POV. He is writing from an Israeli perspective....In all cases of conflicting versions he takes the Israeli version as the main version and all others get little attention or a mere part sentence....In the 1948 article no historian is quoted as using the word exodus, yet the title still has exodus, why because it it an accurate reflection of the events......All the early reports say refugees and refugee problem....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Between 1949 and 1956, Israel displaced and sometimes expelled a few thousands of Palestinians. Several villages at the border were also leveled."

why did ceedjee insert the extremist POV at the start?....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Date[edit]

Date goes from to, not in 49 and 56, as it was continuous throughout the period....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exodus[edit]

The use of the term Exodus does not imply there was a war.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exact.

The word exodus only refers to mass emigration.

Who many Palestinians left the area ? Which scholar talk about exodus for this period ? Ceedjee (talk) 09:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In relationship to 750,000 over 40,000 is smaller but still quite large enough to be considered as an exodus....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So Talk[edit]

The expulsions and Exodus continued up to 1956...as per the secondary sources suppliedand indeed confirmed with primary sources.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The other alternative is to combine it with the 1948 Palestinian exodus from where it came....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No talk no action?...No Tags...Case closed.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't supply any single source talking about an exodus between 1949 and 1956.

Else, give the author, the book and the page.

And I will also require you send me a scan of the page if I don't have the book because you already proved in the past you manipulated excerpts.

Good luck.Ceedjee (talk) 09:17, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also point out that I suggested something as :

Expulsion of Palestinians by Israel between 1949 and 1956

which is certainly not an exodus. Ceedjee (talk) 09:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You don't supply a source or author that only refers to 1948 as the only exodus...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There were cases of expulsion but it was not a case of only expulsion; (See the few lines on the sales of land to the JNF). The whole period was not black and white....there was a large movement of people; and that is what a exodus is....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 13:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What wp:rs secondary source claim there was a large "movement of people". None.

But there are numerous ones that talk about transfer (mainly expulsions).

More : "exodus" has some sort of symetry connotation with what the Jews lived. 1948 Palestinian exodus can be compared with exodus of civilians during WW2 but any comparison with the exodus of Jews in 70PCN is a pov.

Ceedjee (talk) 08:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Benny Morris does as per the reference in the article. or don't you consider 40,000 as enough for you?..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the page[edit]

I moved the article to a more standard name, with the years first and "exodus" uncapitalized. I felt comfortable doing this after researching how the similar articles were titled, and because I came to this as a completely uninvolved editor. S. Dean Jameson 23:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

no prob. for me. Except the wp:rs 2nd source still lacks for "exodus". Ceedjee (talk) 08:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And 1948 Palestinian exodus still has OR due to the attempt at shortening the period to 1948 alone....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am tired by your continuous personal attack and by your unability to carry a discussion at only 1 place. I am also tired by the fact you don't engage in discussion and try to establish a dialogue. I am not here to solve the I-P conflict or the find who is the bad guy.

Concerning the question, you should appreciate this author :

Ghada Karmi "The 1948 Exodus: A Family Story" in Journal of Palestine Studies 23, no. 2 (Win. 1994): 31-40.

And I already carried at your attention :

Steven Glazer, The Palestinian Exodus in 1948 in Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. 9, No. 4 (Summer, 1980), pp. 96-118.

As I told you, 1948 refers to the 1948 war and nobody wants to restrict anything. You just don't understand what is told to you and cannot keep cool.

Ceedjee (talk) 09:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean the 1948 to 1979 war? The 1948 fighting didn't end with 1948 it didn't even end with the truce mid 1949. So when did the exodus end? The exodus according to Ghada Karmi is still on going. The inappropriateness of the title for the 1948 Palestinian exodus doesn't bother me so much as the attitude of "well the title says 1948 so anything after that can't have happened", that is a tautology and not correct. And if you didn't want to apply restrictions why remove the "5 exodus"? At your suggestion I started a new article, this one, nice clean page, room for expansion....I do understand what is told, and I also understand when what is said is patently absurd...as in which books I can use and which writers are, in your opinion, suitable for use...sorry but I have seen that you do not complain about extremist web sites being used by Gilabrand...patently you believe in special exemptions for Pro Israeli editors..I keep my cool however what I am is persistent....Ghada Karmi left Palestine in July 1948 and was part of an exodus, her particular family's flight was in 1948 that was her personal exodus, it says in the title a Family story, not the whole of the Palestinian peoples story. Benny on the other hand includes up to and including 1950 as the exodus....it is surprising, that now you don't want the Benny version used...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Work to do[edit]

The biggest part of the "Exodus" still to do. 1. The migration to Jordan of the refugees...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

move ?[edit]

I'd like to move this article to a more accurate title...

Expulsion of Palestinians between 1949 and 1956
Palestinian refugees between 1949 and 1956
Palestinian refugees during Israel's borders war
...

We could use this existing article as interwiki reference : Israel's Border Wars 1949–1956 Ceedjee (talk) 20:56, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]