Talk:1924 Kirkuk massacre

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Recent edits[edit]

@Khorler please refrain from turning this page into a nationalistic page. All my sources are referenced and it is clear you want to portray one side as something contrary to what they were during the event. The book I referenced clearly states the dead, wounded, and what led up to the firefight between the Levies and the Muslims of Kirkuk. The Levies were attacked first and then after the second altercation in the coffee shop, the levies went to a bridge as stated in the source to continue fighting the Muslims. The Muslims then opened fire and that is when the Levies retaliated with their guns and resulted in the deaths. The first deaths were on the side of the Assyrian Levies, not the Muslims. I also checked your sources for some of the statements and they say no such things. This is also not a massacre. The event in Mosul is showing that the Assyrians and Muslims did not have good relations which led up to a bloody event such as this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by History264728 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disturbance or Massacre?

- "On 4th May, inhabitants of Kirkuk were the victims of an atrocious massacre perpetrated by the Assyrian levies , which changed whole situation. On the way from parade the Assyrians savagely assaulted number of Muslims sitting in coffee shop, after slight collision with the police, who tried to bar their way into the town, rushed to their camps, seized rifles and ammunition, and ran amok through Kirkuk for three hours firing at and killing all Muslims whom they saw"

source: British Documents on Foreign Affairs--reports and Papers from the Foreign Office Confidential Print: The expansion of Ibn Saud, 1922-1925. (University Publications of America, 1985 - Great Britain). p.13

- "massacre by Assyrian levies in 1924"

Source: Daniel Silverfarb, ‎Majid Khadduri. "Britain's Informal Empire in the Middle East: A Case Study of Iraq 1929-1941". (Oxford University Press, Jun 12, 1986). pp.36, 196

- "massacre of  May 4, 1924 in Kirkuk."

source: Liam Anderson & ‎Gareth Stansfield. "Crisis in Kirkuk: The Ethnopolitics of Conflict and Compromise". (niversity of Pennsylvania Press, Sep 21, 2011). Page 63

- "Kirkuk massacre (1924)" Source: Neil James Mitchell. Democracy's Blameless Leaders: From Dresden to Abu Ghraib, how Leaders Evade Accountability for Abuse, Atrocity, and Killing. (NYU Press, 2012). p.165

- "In spite of the efforts of their British officers and native officers to stop them , the Assyrians ran amok through the town , firing at all Muslims, and looting shops and houses, British troops were dispatched by air,their presence together with that of armored cars , undoubtedly saved the local Christians from savage reprisals."

source 1: Report by His Majesty's Government to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of ʻIraq. (Great Britain. Colonial Office 1920). p.36

Source 2: Iraq, Report on Iraq Administration. (Great Britain. Colonial Office H.M. Stationery Office, 1925). p.36

Source 3: Report to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of 'Iraq. (Great Britain. Colonial Office, 1927). p.21

Number of Victims:

Number of Turkemens 50: "In 1924 two companies of the Assyrian levies mutinied in Kirkuk , killing fifty of the Turkish townspeople."

Souces: George Eden Kirk · "A Short History of the Middle East: From the Rise of Islam to Modern Times". (Methuen, 1957). p.17

Total number of Muslims killed 300 (Kurd, Arab, Turkmen): "it was later estimated that the Assyrians had killed more than 300 people"

source: Jeremy Salt. The Unmaking of the Middle East: A History of Western Disorder in Arab Lands. Pp.108-9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khorler (talk • contribs) 22:14, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Khorler thanks for providing the sources. the first source states that there were kurds also part of the levies. i also want you to know that the sources state that the assyrian levies (or iraq levies) had significant assyrians, but still had muslims as levies as well. Here is a quote from your first source,

"Police were powerless , and Kurdish cavalry levies detained in lines by officers for fear of making racial fighting worse . Native assyrian officers reported to have behaved well and to have tried to beat back their men , but completely lost control".

The assyrian officers tried to get their men to stop firing despite being attacked by armed Muslims. Keep in mind they attacked and assyrians opened fire on the Muslims. This was not a coordinated massacre of innocent unarmed Muslims like you tried to portray in the original post. The source also states that had the levies not stopped, the local Muslims would have killed innocent local Christians. Clearly showing that the Muslims were armed and already had a disdain for christians.

"at great personal risk assyrians had been got under control by the time of arrival of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers , which undoubtedly saved the British officers and the local Christians froin massacre by the enraged Moslemn population."

also, your source Crisis in Kirkuk: The Ethnopolitics of Conflict and Compromise, has a quote on the same page from a british officer called the event an "outbreak", not a massacre.

"R. S. Stafford noted that this outbreak, on the part of disciplined troops, however great the provocation"

in regards to the amount killed, one of your sources say over 300 killed but that can mean anything. it can be 5000, 1 million, etc. it does not go into specific numbers and also says estimates. estimates according to who? can you provide the source for this estimate? the source i provided is from someone who was in the british army and in Iraq. also, is there a source that states some of the casualties were arab and kurd? i only see turkmen as the muslims that were killed.

finally, please stop removing the fact that it was a retaliation when all sources state so, even the ones you posted. the levies were provoked and the muslims were armed. also, removing valid events that led to this one or what muslims did to provoke the levies shows a strong bias. --History264728 (talk) 00:28, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't it 300 victims?[edit]

before it was 300 Muslim death 185.106.28.57 (talk) 00:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]