Talk:Ćevapi

Based on Charles Elesits

Chevab Csi Csi (Arm Csi), its moulded slang for Jesus (Would/Wood Bait), and therfore was used and promoted in the ghettos of Australia for entertainment, while Magda Szubanski had something to fill her pot, and we also have to remember the others (The Moon for eg.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.10.59.12 (talk) 04:55, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Food for politics

What is this nonsense about the dish being restricted to or prevalent in Bosnia and Herzegovina? It is common in Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Macedonia and all the other former republics of the FRY. Are you going to make a political issue out of food?

It's a dish commonly associated with BiH. True or false? True. If you were to pick the republic most commonly associated with it, which one would you pick? BiH, because it has the most inherent link to Ottoman heritage, and ćevapi is one of those things. --Joy [shallot] 14:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually false. It is same like saying that pizza is PizzaHut's meal, and if you would pick a land that would be USA as it is associated with them. You logic is completely false. Moreover, there are no written evidence of ćevapčići in Bosnia before end of 19th an beginning of 20th century. At the same time in mid 19th the spread from Leskovac to Belgrade

Ćevapčići are associated with Serbia and Leskovac. They were made by christian comunity on mobile barbecue carts or I front of small butcher shops near the market as they were paying higher taxes as non-christian population, and they were not allowed to have restaurant type of business. Cevapcici were made by butcher's helppers, usualy boys in teenage years as they had smaller hands and were sold by piece rather than per weight. This is why they are 20-30g per piece ( length corresponds to the width of the palm, and girth to the first knuckles of thumb and point finger) Ćevapi came later to Bosnia in 20th century. Basicaly in early 1900s they spread onto the Bosnia. First in Banja Luka and later to Sarajevo.They had similar dish on a skewerwith meat, parsley, onion, garlic, bread known as köfte kebab. All these famous ćevapdžinicas in Sarajevo are opened in '60s and '70s. Pixius talk 19:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, if there ever was such a thing in the terms of POV, it must be who cooks the best food! One may think the best dish is made in Sarajevo or Stari gradi on Hvar (my personal preference) or by ones mother, but that is hardly encyclopedic stuff! Asav

But the reputation of Baščaršija and Banja Luka ćevapi is positive fame - at least here in Croatia. This isn't a matter of expressing opinion, it is statement of fact - many people think that it's these ćevapi that are somehow the best. --Joy [shallot] 14:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Having said that, I'll try to merge the two versions. --Joy [shallot]

I ate ćevaps in Baščaršija and Banja Luka and I can say that they are not diferent from those made in my hometown Novi Sad. Maybe it cause we have a lot of Bosians here lately ^^ 81.18.55.28 23:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Where ever it comes from... It's delish.

Please, everybody knows the Lekovacki rostilj (cevapcici from town Leskovac) is the best. The name cevapcici does not even exist in Bosnia. The dish spread in Croatia first on Adria coast because of enormous number of tourists from Serbia. 20-30 years ago, I doubt that you could get a portion of cevapcici in Zagreb.

They used to sell this where I live and I loved it, but then they stopped selling it for some reason. I haven't had Ćevapčići since about 10 years ago! —KingIvan 02:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The name cevapcici does not even exist in Bosnia? You obviously have never been. Every city has at least a few places making cevapcici. Sarajevo is filled with them.

They have cevape in Zagreb, in a place called Bannja Lucke Cevape (english: Cevape from Banja Luka)

It's kind of annoying that some nationalists won't even let Bosnians have their own food/dish. I guess you have to start somewhere if you totally want to eradicate a people and its culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.174.235.245 (talk) 14:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

First of all, Cevapi or Cevapcici are not Croatian traditional food but Turkish. When Turks arive to Balkan, Serbs and Bosniaks accepted their traditional food like Cevapi. Actually, Turkish name for cevapi is Kebaps like in Iran. This meal is different from cevapi. Cevapi are "customised" in Serbia and best grill cevapi are in souther Serbia in Nis and Leskovac. --Dvatel (talk) 22:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

So you are saying they can't be traditional Croatian food because they are Turkish, yet they can be Serbian/Bosniak? Do you forget that the Turks occupied parts of present-day Croatia as well? Have you tasted every cevap in the region? How would you know which are best? Where are your sources for these claims. That's right, you have none. Step off your nationalist high horse and realise that Balkan cuisine is heterogeneous and influenced by many cultures that don't belong exclusively to one country. --Jesuislafete (talk) 23:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Turks do not have cevap/cevapcici at all. Nor they ever had. They have tekirdağ kebapçı - which, according to Turkish sources, was made by settlers from Macedonia, during the 20th century population exchange Pixius talk 00:21, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

@Dvatel Turks, nor other Ottoman and Persian influenced regions do not have ćevap kind of dish. Main point of ćevap is that it does not use any additional "glue", the meat is at least 48h in preparation, mixed several times. The Kebabs are on the skewer 🍢, which serves as a support, made from fresh meat, mixed with spices and fresh vegetables, none of which ćevap has.

It would be same like saying all cackes are the same as they have eggs in it

The only dish available is in Tekirdăg Kebab, but as Turks say, the recipe was brought by settlers from Makedonija in 20th century (population exchange) Pixius talk 20:23, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dvatel The meal is not Turkish weather. Only dish similar to ćevap/ćevapčići is Tekirdağ köftesi and Inegol, but it was made by post 1920 settlers from south of Serbia.

Kebap in turkey is made with different vegetables, parsley, some even put bread crumbs soaked in milk, and it is exclusively made "on spot" as soon as the mixture is thoroughly mixed, without meat fermentation Pixius talk 17:44, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh my... nice political speech! Actually the word "Cevapcici" comes from the Turkish "kebab" or serbian ćevapčići. Yes, Turks occupied parts of Croatia as well as parts of Hungary, Poland, even Austria etc.. so what?

Yes Cevapcici are common in Croatia, but they are NOT traditional Croatian food! In many cities throughout Germany, doner kebab is more popular than hamburgers, but then again Kebab is not traditional food in Germany. --Dvatel (talk) 16:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources for any of your "information"? --Jesuislafete (talk) 18:18, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Any..? :))

* http://www.istrianet.org/istria/gastronomy/osteria/cevapcici.htm (Istrianet)
* http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-cuisine-of-yugoslavia-per-country.html (The Cuisine of Yugoslavia Per Country)
* http://fm4v2.orf.at/enes/22107/main.html (The Original Cevapcici by ORF.at)
* http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/103948/cevapcici (Assorted References by Britannica)
* http://www.gastro.hr/autohtona-jela-hrvatskog-turizma--2404.aspx (Cro. txt.)

--Dvatel (talk) 09:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

LOL! You are serious? This is all you managed to google? Where do I begin? 1) The first site is an ISTRIAN site, not even a valid source--it is a site/blog run by a group of people. They mention "Bosnian, Serbian, etc" coming to Istria and THAT is your "source"? 2) Ditto Buzzle.com. Seriously? They even call Cevaps "traditional Balkan recipe", and they are not even a valid encyclopedic source. 3) fm4v2 website: let me just type in the first line here so everyone can see how encyclopedic and reliable it is "It probably came with Turks (rumor goes that originates form Liban), spread all over ex-Yugoslavia". This blogger doesn't even use proper English grammar. 4) This site is not even correct/comple, as it only lists cevapcici from Bosnia and Serbia when this article plainly makes clear they are located everywhere the Ottomans were. Moreover, the only reason why it is even mentioned is because they say that Cevapcic are the "national dish" of these countries. Just because other countries's governments don't have it as a "national dish" doesnt mean they aren't present there. 5) Cevapcici were imported from the Turks so of course they would not be called "authentic" Croatian food, because only parts of Croatia were occupied by Turks. The main ones--Slavonia, Zagorje, Medimurje, Istria, Dalmatian coast were not. Cevapi may not be as "Croatian" as they are Bosnian/Balkan, and they are not the national dish, but they still are and important part of the Turkish legacy left on the whole region. Why does this bother you? --Jesuislafete (talk) 19:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hm, valid encyclopedic source about Cevapcici... Are YOU serious?

Cevapcici may not be as "Croatian" as they are Bosnian/Balkan, and they are not the national dish, but they still are and important part of the Turkish legacy left on the whole region. I can't agree more! :) Dvatel (talk) 21:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Wonderful. --Jesuislafete (talk) 03:47, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Articles like this really jump my tubber, i am paranoid. Can anyone varify this please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.197.230 (talk) 17:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

CEVAPCICI AND CEVAPI

The cevapcici dish that is very popular in Germany and some other countries of Europe is a dish that became part of popular culture first in Belgrade in the 19. centuries in kafanas. Than the Belgrade culture spread all across the Adria sea cost where the dish was introduced to the Germans and other tourists from abroad. On the other hand, cevapi that have etymologicaly same name have completely different cultural background, other kind of tast and are much smaller. Cevapi are traditional Bosnian dish indeed, but that are not allaround the Europe famous cevapcici. Stop behaving like children here.Luzzifer (talk) 15:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm assuming this also has to do with the move history:

08:29, 25 June 2005 210.213.138.58 (article created as Cevapcici)

13:19, 25 June 2005 Joy (Cevapcici moved to Cevapi)

28 June 2005 Evil Monkey m (Cevapi moved to Ćevapi)

6 September 2006 Luzzifer m (moved Ćevapi to Ćevapčići: Ćevapčići are exclusevly known under this name in Germany and other European countries, as well as on Adria coast in Croatia.)

26 May 2007 Joy m (moved Ćevapčići to Ćevapi over redirect: moved back, reverting a bad move - it's a derivative name and it's most definitely not exclusively used in all those places)

20 January 2008 Luzzifer (The world knows cevapcici not cevapi. Just deal with it. It was the Serbian recepie that spread all over the world. Or, let make two articles.

21 January 2008 Luzzifer m (moved Ćevapi to Ćevapčići over redirect: The word ćevapi is not common to English language. The english name for this food is ćevepčići, same in German.)

As far as the title is concerned - this is the English Wikipedia, and what you assert is "exclusively known" in Germany is not of paramount importance to the article title, because English readers may come from a variety of other places. The only English-language reference in the article uses the shorter name (AFAICT from the Google books preview). It is also likely much simpler for English readers to comprehend. The redirect stays, obviously. So, I see no apparent benefit in using the diminutive form. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:15, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

(Corrected the timeline, in older mediawiki, the moves weren't recorded nicely everywhere, so I had to check a few more pages. --Joy [shallot] (talk))

Types of čevapčići

Although I am aware of the fact that every čevapčići maker has his own recipe, I think it would be good to mention two (to my knowledge) main types of čevapčići: banjalučki čevapčići (čevapčići from Banja Luka) and sarajevski čevapčići (čevapčići from Sarajevo). As far as I know, banjalučki čevapčići are made out of beef and pork, while sarajevski are made out of beef and lamb. I have been told that the main reason is because the majority of people in Banja Luka are of Serbian ethnicity (who are mostly Orthodox), while people in Sarajevo are mostly Muslim (and therefore, cannot eat pork). Could someone please verify this? Also, which čevapčići are the original ones? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.129.101.28 (talk) 22:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Ones made in Leskovac, Serbia.Cevapcici - original name of shape and look — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.192.96.19 (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Serbia

We have lot of sources for Serbia, do not remove it please, that not ok. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 16:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Being objective and providing historic evidence is a must!

Due to the major politicization of the issue with the food and the issues of nationalistic sort I'll kindly ask the editors to refrain from using speculative material. With that being said I'd like to point some things for people to consider before jumping into the conclusions of being the ultimate creators of the Ćevap. The discussion is open for everyone who want to shed some light on the topic itself.

First of all, the Ottoman Empire expanded into the Serbian land during the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, and only then they followed in the regions of Bosnia. That being said, there's literally zero chance that the Ottoman culture came to Bosnia first. I'm sorry fellow Bosnian people, but you're not the first to adopt Turkish cuisine nor their culture in general since it doesn't make sense chronologically and geographically.

The Ottoman empire needed more than two hundred years to take down the Serbian capitol Belgrade and then move towards the western lands. Let's remind, the battle of Kosovo was in 1389. Turkish sultan died that time. The next attack was not before 1440. year. Then 1456. year. It failed. Then there was the attack during the 1521. year by the Ottoman forces which finally made the Serbian capitol theirs. That's more than a century of Turkish stagnation military-wise. There was a Great Serbian Empire which crumbled under the rule of Stefan Uroš V back in 14th century.

By the time the Ottoman empire was at the Bosnia's doorstep, Serbia already took a lot of the Turkish culture and adopted Turkism in general in the daily colloquial linguistic use.

Aside from that fact, the Serbian Hajduks were the ones who started the entire Ćevap trend which only later got widespread in the Balkans.

Let's remember, the Turks have no equivalent food to that of Ćevap either. 

It is nonexistent meaning that Ćevap is quite possibly a genuine Balkan food which wouldn't be a surprise given the existence of Pljeskavica food. They most likely simply saw how it's made and gave it a completely generic name which is exactly what they did with Sarma. Yet, the Turks don't use Sour Cabbage to make Sarma either and while at it the phrase "Sarma" means nothing to the Turks since it doesn't define the food itself. The rough translation is "Stuffed" and the rough translation for the Kebab is "Grilled" (-fried- to be more precise).

Given how there're many turkish words in the Serbian language, it's rather strange that words Ćevap and Kebab differentiate greatly in terms of the pronunciation, shape, form, method of preparation and so on. Aside from a very slight word association the Ćevap shares absolutely nothing in common with the Kebab. On top of that there doesn't exist anything similar to Pljeskavica in the turkish cuisine and yet Pljeskavica and Ćevapi are not all that different on the terms of preparation. 

Aside from that, the earliest known data for the Ćevapi being made officially comes from the Leskovac region, under the banner of Leskovački roštilj (Leskovac Grill Festival) to be more precise. The lack of the historic evidence before that period is due to the Ottoman rule and no valid administration which would provide the much needed historic evidence in order to accord this dispute. With that being said, the diminutive form called "Ćevapčići" is nothing more than a derogatory term used by the Bosnian Ćevap makers in order to belittle the influence of the Serbian cuisine despite it's clear historic data and evidence on the terms of Hajduks and the famous Hajdučki ćevap. It's a rather ugly habit that somehow got stuck among the people. If anything, Serbian Ćevapi are actually bigger than the ones served in Bosnia (not including the Republika Srpska or rather - Banjalučki ćevap which is again made by the pro-Serbian populace).

As for me, I'll be willing to discuss this with fellow food enthusiasts and people who genially like Ćevapi. I urge you to keep things on a professional level and without much heated debates that serve no purpose nor provide anything in a constructive manner. Nenaraz (talk) 07:06, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

There is an actual academic research on the topic, but by posting it here it would spark a brawl... Pixius talk 00:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Cevapi is not an Ottoman food brought to Serbia. It is an old Croatian/Illyrian food for roamers, like for those who go mountaineering or cut trees for ships. It became famous during the Ottoman occupation of Croatian Bosnia and Islamization. It was used by the Austrian supported rebellious Hajduks across the occupied territory and got famous inside the Ottoman Empire. That included also Serbia. So it is not from the Middle East. Cevapi is only a Croatian word for the Ottoman Turkish description of that meal as "kebap", which has nothing to do with what we understand of kebap today. From there the term cevapi went into other South Slavic languages, like into Serbian. Later, in the Austrian Empire, cevapi were more common in Serbia, because they were served as a stationary dish. But eventually were mass and industrially produced in the Austrian Empire also for its soldiers and Bosnians, who ate them as fast food. After forceful dissolution of Austria, the cevapi spread from Belgrade steadily across the SHS state, because fewer people could cook slowly anymore and were up for fast grilling. But it remained unimportant across the Adriatic, basically whole Croatia, the Croatian part of Montenegro like Kotor, or in Slovenia. Only around the 1960 it became popular there, because people were less imprisoned and used it as a take away food. Over the Croatian diaspora, it then was also made known in Italy and Germany as a "Yugoslav dish" similar to a bulette.--Hmmcevapi (talk) 21:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

@Hmmcevapi

Please, if you have reliable, non tabloid sources, predating any Croatian nationalism, feel free to post it here.

I will not respond to the above written nonsense Pixius talk 17:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Somebody reverts it with no comment

I got a message, that my corrections were reverted without any explaination or further correction, so I guess it is just trolling. My corrections round up the article, which is currently in a bad shape with very selective information, mostly from Serbia lacking a lot of important details. Please help bring the article to light.--Hmmcevapi (talk) 21:20, 1 August 2023 (UTC)