User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 2

Alternative music

Well, I hate the concept (an alternative to what exactly?) but I like the music so you just tell me what needs doing and I'll try by best to do it. I disagree with your being American [ : ) ], but am willing to ignore this, so strongly do I agree with your dislike of that miserable, overrated, crap singer and all aroung poor-mans Johnny Marr that is Morrissey. BTW, no a musical subject, I just listened to "I'm Not Like Everybody Else" by The Kinks and would strongly recommend giving it a (re)listen.--Crestville 19:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Smashing Pumpkins

I am becoming increasingly agitated with you reverting my changes to the Smashing Pumpkins article. The Smashing Pumpkins were influenced by heavy metal more than any other genre. Billy Corgan even stated in an interview with a Canadian newspaper that the Smashing Pumpkins were "one of the best heavy metal bands in the world." A more appropriate classification for the Smashing Pumpkins would be alternative-metal or at least hard rock. I would also like to add that the Smashing Pumpkins are listed with hard rock artists. I respect that you have contributed a great deal to the Smashing Pumpkins article but I believe that the Smashing Pumpkins are improperly classified by you and many critics. And I would like to think that Billy Corgan knows his band! Obviously someone considers the Smashing Pumpkins to be metal! And obviously someone believes they are hard rock or they would not be listed with hard rock musicians!!

Here you go check this web site on the smashing pumpkins, it justifies the alternative-metal classification. http://music.download.com/2001-8652_32-0.html

AND THIS AS WELL. HERE IS BILLY'S INTERVIEW http://www.chartattack.com/damn/2000/04/1402.cfm

I am willing to compromise. I will stop changing the Smashing Pumpkins' classification on their page IF AND ONLY IF YOU ALLOW ME TO include them with the other alternative metal artists.

"Learn to Fly" debate

I really don't know what to do about the guy in this debate who doesn't seem to grasp the basic principles of source citation. I'm trying not to get into a revert war over this, but it's really hard to take him seriously since he seems to cause a lot of other trouble. If this keeps up, we might have to bring an administrator into this. Let's both try and keep calm about this, though. WesleyDodds 07:26, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to do here, either. It seems like we have consensus based on the responses, so I assume that would be grounds to going to an administrator, especially if all he does is revert. (And, given his other edits, I don't think it would take long for the admins to make a call.)

I still keep hoping that this will solve itself. I emailed Billboard Research in early June about the goof, and received a response confirming that it was a mistake and that they'd pass on the info to "the appropriate people" (the web folks, I assume). But I received the response on June 16th, and nothing's happened yet. -- ChrisB 04:50, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I have given my reason as to why I keep reverting your comments.ITS ORIGINAL RESEARCH!!and you still have not given me any proof to prove me wrong.-CAYA

HIM

I will respond to both comments stated:

1. Unclaasifibale: They are unclassifiable. Can you put them into one class of music, no. That's pretty self explained.
2. Rock: All forms of music written on the article are not forms of rock. Metal is not a type of rock. Metal is a genre on it's own. To say they are purely rock would be inaccurate.

— The King of Kings 02:31 July 13 '06

Well, pending on furthur consensus here, I wouldn't assume everyone here thinks that Metal is a form of Rock. No, its not unclassifiable because editors haven't come to a consensus, but because we haven't got that 3 sources to begin with. HIM is unclassifiable because every source we come across says something differant. I've seen it listed as love metal, gothic love metal (although it doesn't exist), every genre listed on the article, rock, pop, emo and more. Thus they are unclassifiable. — The King of Kings 02:42 July 13 '06

Actually, thinking about it, metal does sorta fit under the genre of rock. But still theres the issue of what genre to list first as there are many types that could be listed. I'm adding the above (except (gothic) love metal) to the list on the article. — The King of Kings 02:51 July 13 '06

I can live with musical group. What I did before was just have the word "band" before, but thn it was discussed on the talk page and we changed it to unclassifiable (and then I linked it to its section). But I guess that works too. — The King of Kings 02:59 July 13 '06

re: More music samples

I have a few songs by most of those artists, but I'm not completely familiar with them, if you could let me know some specific songs by them that would help --Surachit 03:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

reverting to allmusic.com

Why do you keep reverting to that poor description by allmusic.com on the heavy metal article?

Alternative music collaboration of the week

Hey Wesley (hope you dont mind if I call you that), I was just wondering if the Alternative music collaboration of the week was still in operation. I added a vote for Smashing Pumpkins, and realized all of the other ones were a month old. Is it dead or what? --Reaper X _{→T →C} 21:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

No One Owns the article

I understand your frustration, but keep in mind no one owns the article. While the merits of the additions are questionable, everyone has the right to contribute. WesleyDodds 21:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Wesley .. yeah i know... but how can you support this ... "pop punk revival" ... this is useless and is competely unreferenced and unsubstantiated... we need to get this all figured out.. it shouldnt be that difficult. Xsxex 01:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to Green Day

Your recent edit to Green Day (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 07:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems like I have been seeing a lot of bogus reverts by this AntiVandalBot lately... -- Xinit 17:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

AKA

So do people call you the Sandman?
Sorry for the bad pun Whispering 19:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Green Day

I'd like to ask your help with Green Day. Countless edits are made everyday to this page, arguments continue over the band's genre and point of origin, and even cited material is being changed. On a related note there is currently discussion about the split of the pop punk page into Pop punk and Pop punk revival. I trust your ability to maintain the integrety of sources and evaluate the contributions of others, so any help you can offer would be appreciated. WesleyDodds 07:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be happy to help! I'll see if I can start working on it this weekend. I threw in a quick note to the pop punk revival discussion, but I'll try and get more involved in that in the next few days. (I saw one familiar editor name in that discussion that put the whole thing into focus.) I'll try and dig up some sources on "pop punk", too - I'm almost positive that the term wasn't used (at all) until the late 80s indie punk scene, and not popularly until the mid-90s. -- ChrisB 14:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Dods

Hey man.. im with you on the pop punk revival (yeah well im outspoken and have NO LIFE) .. but yeah cool... pop punk revival ... does that make any sense... in some ways its like the Aguilera song surviver... cause i think having to back up my opinion makes me stronger.. but its still a pain in the ass.. The whole (pop punk) article needs a good overhaul.. but well keep workin it.. but yeah this is what i wrote in dec. 2004 - http://bvio.ngic.re.kr/Bvio/index.php/Punk_pop does that link work? it needed some major work but i was really stoked when i checked back a few months back and found the article to be relatively still intact (and vastly improved)... speaking of which i am attempting to do some writing about punk and (as i've gathered from your profile.. you do too) are you on myspace? im trying to connect with fellow writers who are interested and have knowledge of this subject material. Thanks! Xsxex 21:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Nirvana

Nirvana are not punk rock eh? I agree that is not their primary genre, but what do you call "territorial pissings" "drain you" "stay away" "downer" "on a plain" "tourettes" "very ape" "negative creep" and probably about a total of close to half of their catalog other than punk rock, or at least very heavily pubk inspired. I won't change it again till we've talked about it some, but honestly I think Nirvana are at least moderately punk rock. sure, they're not the ramones, the damned, the sex pistols, black flag, dead kennedys, or anything else where punk is the only label that can really be used, but kurt cobain was so heavily influenced by punk rock and incorporated it into their songs so much that I think they qualify. Razorhead

Nirvana incoporated punk a lot more than pretty much all of the other grunge bands, save maybe mudhoney and the melvins, who were about equal. pearl jam, soundgarden, alice in chains, screaming trees etc. all sound a lot less punk than nirvana. so I wouldn't say all alternative rock bands were as influenced by punk as nirvana were. Razorhead

Yes I know alternative rock is more than grunge I thought you were specifically referring to the grunge movement when you said alternative rock, it's a really really broad phrase and hardly tells you anything about a band's genre anymore since lots of nu metal and modern rock bands get labelled as "alternative" because there isn't a convienient name for them. anyways, getting back on topic, I would probably also label The Pixies, Sonic Youth, and especially Husker Du (which are usually labelled a mix between hardcore and alt-rock anyways) as punk as a genre. When bands get classified I think it's a good idea to include all subgenres that they may belong to, to give the reader of the article an idea of perhaps the band's variety of taste etc. And since a very large amount of Nirvana songs could easily be called punk rock, I think punk would not be that much of a stretch to call them. Razorhead (I'm still getting used to this whole message someone like you are editing a page thing, it's kinda weird to me, so I'm probably not signing it the "correct" way)

Question

Should {{heavymetal}} in heavy metal be replaced with {{rock}}? Psychomelodic User:Psychomelodic/me 12:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Good Article

I know you have contributed a lot to Green Day, and so have I, and I think it classifies as a Good Article, don't you? I think we should nominate it, only I don't know how. Compare the article 2 weeks ago to now. There have been huge improvments, and our efforts shouldn't go unnoticed. Scrumshus 15:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

POV? What's that? Anways, you said "cut down" on album info, isn't it the more the merrier? Or will readers get bored with reading one huge thing instead of a couple shorter ones? In the mentime, I'll search the article for any "fannish" writing and try to re-word it. Scrumshus 22:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

So what you're saying is leave the important album info for the album's page? Scrumshus 22:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Gotcha. Actually I put those song info there because before the article looked so short and depressing. :) Scrumshus 22:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

SP FAC time?

Hey Wesley,

As a fellow editor who patrols the Smashing Pumpkins article, I first would like to thank you for your hard work on the page, especially with regards to the overhaul related to the peer review. What I'd like to say is that it seems to me that you've implemented most, if not all, of what was recommended there. Given that the article is otherwise fairly stable (barring massive new reunion details before early 2007) and comprehensive, I don't see why you don't go ahead and give it the shove to featured article candidate. You'll get an even more critical bunch of eyes helping to polish the article to near-perfection, and of course gain the coveted FA nod should you succeed. It would also give yet another rationale to protect the article from fawning fan-cruft - "please keep standards high - this is a featured article and we'd like to keep it like that". Basically, I don't know what else you can do with the article, and I'd personally love to see it reach FA-level, although I'm currently tied up with an FAC myself (35 mm film). In any case, keep up the good work and good luck! Girolamo Savonarola 23:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's time to reconsider this again - getting the article FA'd right now is a good way to establish a quality standard against which future additions can be held. If this doesn't happen shortly, then the article will - at least for a few months - be considered non-FAC quality, since the reunion in full gear will make them consider it too unstable. If FAC'd before then, it will make all writing on the reunion more solid, because it will need to be good enough to maintain the FA standard. I don't think that there's much else for the article to improve on prior to the reunion, so why not do this now? :) Girolamo Savonarola 22:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Gimme Indie Rock

Yeah I think your right; honestly, I can't remember the last time I actually read the articles until today. These three pargraphs from indie music [1],[2], [3], could probably be incorporated into the indie rock article, to help flesh it out. I'm not a big fan of the list at the top of the "current trends" section in the indie rock page, or it's title, what do you think? maxcap 19:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

More Pumpkins Stuff

Hey Wesley. I already mentioned this on the SP talk page, but I want you to look at this line I stripped from the Billy Corgan page.

"Avery has been sighted recording with the band, but former Smashing Pumpkins and Hole bass player Melissa Auf der Maur is said to be competing with Avery for the position.[4]."

Quite the piece of info, but its not on the SP page. I would have added it, but I'm not sure about the legitimacy of [5]. Could you perhaps take a peek, and give your opinion? Thanks. -- Reaper X 18:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Punk music

Whats up? Hi, I'm trying to gather some more interest and support for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Punk music. Please check out the topics and lets get our WikiProject to function better. I've taken an interest in the Wikipedia:WikiProject hip hop and I consider that WikiProject to be better developed. Hopefully we can all work together to improve articles relating to punk. Also, I am trying to gather support and opinions concerning the punk house article and specifically the Theta Beta Potata article which is currently in AfD (x2) at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Theta Beta Potata (second nomination). Please check it out and voice your opinion. Xsxex 06:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

SP discography page

I'm sure you probably already noticed, but I attempted to broker a compromise on the erroneous singles section by creating separate sections for promo-only releases and remixes, only to have it reverted again. I'm not interested in an edit war, but there was been some discussion on the talk page and I thought maybe you'd like to look again at my edit in the page history and then weigh in - having several editors concurring probably should close the matter, I would think. Anyway, thanks! Girolamo Savonarola 12:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Greetings

Hello Wesley, I noticed that you seem to edit alot of things which you have interest in, as do I, and noticed that we seem to have similar interests and seeing as I plan to keep contributing to Wikipedia increasingly often I thought it would be nice to introduce myself and discuss some things.

I know you like The Smashing Pumpkins as do I. They happen to be my favorite band all time and I own every album from Gish to Machina II (aside from Machina which I lost during my recent move and have yet to replace). If you need sound clips for the page I have alot and would be willing to help. The problem is that Im not too familiar with all of Wikipedia's functions (or HTML for that matter), but Im learning as I go. If you could possibly point me to some nice need to know information Id appreciate it. The wikipedia tutorial is a bit drawn out in my opinion. Like how I could put clips up on Wikipedia, Id take the time to do it.

I also noticed that you requested a fair use image from the vieuphoria dvd. I could get screenshots from the video or the cover art, but i wouldnt know how to prove it is fair use. Heres the cover if that helps at all: [[6]]((Man, I feel like a complete noob))

Im also trying to solve the HIM genre dispute in a similar fashion to how The Smashing Pumpkins genre is listed. Please check the talk page, Id appreciate your input. Lamentingvampire09 11:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, cool thanks. Ill talk to Phorque and Ill also try and make a few fair use samples. I assume they would have to be singles seeing as those are well known and singularly released songs, correct? About how many would you want? Like a handful(5 or so), or one or two off of each album? I can get whatever you want, even stuff from Machina II. Lamentingvampire09 23:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we should put Ava Adore on there. Its noticably electronic and it would show The Pumpkins experimentation with the genre. I can probably have the clips up and made in a day or two. And I think Ill also put up other songs for the seperate albums and songs. Ill come back and tell you when Ive made the clips so you can tell me what to do with them.Lamentingvampire09 00:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, for the Fair Use pictures, would we be able to justify the fair use of the picture from WP:Fair use#Images? Would that be suitable? It says Cover Art for albums and DVDs are fair use so long as they are low resolution. Could we just slap on a template to justify it as fair use if it meets the criteria?

Comics Cleanup

You are one of the best editors working on comics-related articles on Wikipedia. I'd like to inite you to join the new WikiProject I've started: WikiProject Comics Cleanup. Similarly to how the WP:CMC collaboration works to elevate articles to Featured Article status, the primary goal of this new project is to coordinate group cleanup efforts on articles, copy editing, condensing, and providing citations where needed. The secondary goal is to remind good editors that there are other good editors who have the same goals.

This will also help prepare articles for Wikipedia 1.0 assessment, a project I am currently working on pulling together for WP:CMC. I'd really appreciate your membership, but I do understand if you find yourself to be too busy to participate. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The Bongos

Wesley, I enjoyed your article on Alternative Rock. I'm suprised, though, that you fail to include The Bongos in your shortlist of early alternative bands. They were contemporaries of The DBs, The Feelies, and R.E.M., and one the first to receive national attention with "Drums Along The Hudson" (igniting the Hoboken pop scene) and "Numbers With Wings" (one of the first major label Alternative Rock releases from that particular era). I did try to add The Bongos to your page in the appropriate spot, but it was immediately removed. My intention of course was merely to make sure this seminal group was not overlooked. Regards, Robert Banks.

Thanks for your reply, and for your thoughtful reporting! I beg to differ, though, that The Bongos are more obscure than The DBs. Or less important, especially considering the Bongos were one of the first American alternative groups to break through on the early MTV (when it was actually music television), and to make it to the Billboard charts with their 1980 cover of T.Rex's Mambo Sun. R.E.M and Let's Active were influenced by the Bongos (ask them) and one of Let's Active's first shows was performing at the Bongos' RCA signing party at Maxwell's in Hoboken. I was there. Their debut album, "Drums Along The Hudson" is set for release in late '06 or early '07 on Cooking Vinyl Records (U.S. and U.K.). I would ask you to reconsider adding them to your excellent article. Thanks, R. Banks 14 September , 2006

Wikipedia:Notability (comedy)

I've created Wikipedia:Notability (comedy) to help editors in deciding the notability of comedy- and humor-related articles. You are an editor whom I respect and admire. I would appreciate any commentary you may be able to provide to help hammer it into shape. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 09:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The Smashing Pumpkins

No it doesn't adhere better to wiki standarts. We have some sort of standarts of band pages. And I am very sorry, but Smashing Pumpkins isn't at the way it should be. So please, do not revert my work, just because you don't like it. All of us are here to provide some work and I just plain hate nasty and ungrounded reverts.

Regards: Painbearer 08:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, sorry for my behaviour. You see, when there is a danger of revert war, I just... well, it is difficult. There are some people, who just... are sorta untouchable. Anyways, browse through some articles and you will see that we have this structure - one general paragraph of band-history (yeah, I know it's empty) and the rest is about the band-history. That's the way most of the articles are structured here. I am not saying it is the perfect way, but... I just can't find anything better. I think it's not the best way in each portion of the band's history on its own paragraph. From first look it sometimes can be confusing for readers. And I am striving for informative and point-blank articles.

Regards and sorry again...: Painbearer 08:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Madness

Hey, why do you insist that Madness is a rock band when nobody really call them so. Pop band would much more suitable for their sound or if we want to be specific it should be 2tone/New Wave. Pietaster 13:51, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Indie (music) edits

I saw that you reverted the linkspam User:Stevend06 posted in the above-mentioned article. I do not know if you noticed, but posting such linkspam makes up the entirety of this guy's edit history. He needs to be reported to an administrator to be blocked for persistent vandalism. He is a menace. ---Charles 03:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject On Emo Music

Hey, I've noticed you contributed to Emo Music talk page with a research you've done (in GuitarWorld magazine), and the article overally looks great. However, tons of wiki pages about bands in any way related to Emo (The Used, FATA, SOTY, Thrice, FFAF, FFTL etc) undergo severe editing in their genre paragraphs, and it becomes malice, when one second the band is Emo, another second it's something else. I've started WikiProject On Emo Music in order to improve those wikipedia articles. If you're interested in participating, please visit the Front Page of the project. Thanks. Iceness 09:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Snakes on a Plane

Did I tell you I had lunch with the guy who wrote Snakes on a Plane? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 20:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

David Dallesandro, the original writer, works at the University of Pittsburgh, of which I am an alumnus. I maintain the list of Pitt alumni/staff on Wikipedia, and someone added this information about the Dallesandro early one morning. I immediately emailed and set up lunch with him. He sold the script years ago, and it was apparently very different. The hero character makes anti-venom for a living; there was only one species of snake involved, a naturally agressive venomous one that he built up like the velociraptors in Jurassic Park; and the snakes almost never actually bit onscreen becase he was trying for a Hitchcockian suspense feel. He hates the movie: He hates the title, that there are non-venomous snakes in the film, that the airplane is laid out wrong, etc, and it embarrasses him a little. He thinks the Internet phenomenon was stupid. He also tols me that at one point it was going to be an MTV "teens on a high school trip" movie.--Chris Griswold (☎☓) 14:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Post-punk

Is there a source for your definition of post-punk besides your feeling that you know it when you hear it? It seems strange to say that bands were often labeled "post-punk" that were more accurately labeled "alternative rock"--if people often call a kind of music "post-punk", isn't that what "post-punk" is? What reality does a musical label have besides people's use of it to label music? Nareek 02:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sex Pistols FARC

Hi Wesley, would you mind having a glance over the text of Sex Pistols. I'm looking to iron out obvoious weak copy - the article has being undergoing a 'heated' FAR for a few weeks now, and while the first task was to repair a damaged article, it now needs skilled copy editors to tidy up. I've noticed you've edited Sex Pistols before, and have seen youre work on Smashing Pumpkins. Which is why I'd greatly appreciate youre help here. Thanks guy - Coil00 22:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the help on this over the weekend. I'll take a look at Public Image Ltd. sure, I've also been meaning to work on My Bloody Valentine for a while now, and Morrissey needs a good overhaul. Anyway, thanks again - Coil00 19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Green Day recent edit

I think that the information you put back should be put at the album page of American Idiot. Other than that this section needs significant trimming.

Regards: Painbearer 07:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Altrock template

Why no piano? Ninety percent of alternative rock bands feature a piano. --172.193.16.56 00:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Rock music

Hey Wesley,
I've seen what you have done with WikiProject Alternative music, and the contributions you have made to some articles (particularily The Smashing Pumpkins) and I am impressed.
so firstly, I invite you to provide your input and leadership in WikiProject Hard Rock. I have proposed to its creator, DavidJJJ, and other members that this WikiProject be expanded to include rock music in general, as no such WikiProject exists. I would greatly appreciate your comments/concerns.
Secondly, for the continuous work you have done, I feel obligated to give you this:

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		I, Reaper X, give you this barnstar for your work with articles of the alternative rock genre (most notably WikiProject Alternative music), and other music articles. Reaper X 22:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. -- Reaper X 22:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

Announcement: It's an administrator!

---

WesleyDodds, thanks for your support on my request for adminship.

The final outcome was a robust 62/1/1, so I am now an administrator. If you ever have any questions about my actions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thanks again, Chris Griswold

Your Britpop work

		The Barnstar of High Culture
		I, Dsims209, give you this barnstar for your work on the Britpop article for attending it daily, keeping it in check from other editors and turning it into a first class well-kept article. Dsims209 19:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

At one point I rewrote the entire article by scratch. After I took it from another site and was critisized for doing it. Of which I remorsed and still do, and after that I roll up my sleeves and decided to rewrite it from scratch. It was good work and we improved on it. Your barnstar is something as a collective achievement for me. I feel it that way. Congratulations.

Other than that I strongly disagree. We need separate sections. I think the article is better with it. There was a period of semi-resurgence-semi-decline with The Verve and Radiohead and some records including Supergrass and Blur from the 1999-2000, but somewhere when Britney Spears beat the crap out of everyone in 2000, it was over. So, I am opinionated and I think we need separate sections.

Other than that:

Regards: Painbearer 10:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

You have been invited to join a new project

Alex 22:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Pearl Jam

Err, yikes, this guy sounds pretty unfriendly. Anyhow, haha, I have a request that sounds similar to what may be here. Is it all all possible for you to go to Talk:Pearl Jam give the reasons that you feel Pearl Jam should be listed under more genre's than only "Grunge"? I feel like I'm the only voice opposing User:dposse. Thanks. -MattWatt 17:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

SLTS

I think the article looks good! I'm personally not a fan of the composition section (and, in general, describing a song in words), just because I strongly doubt any of those issues were in consideration when the song was written. (It's mainly the descriptive elements - I think the similiarity parts are fine and noteworthy.) I'm not saying that content shouldn't be there - I just don't find it scholarly. The second paragraph of that section reads like a sixth grade English assignment to describe a favorite song. But that may just be me.  :)

Apologies for so often being MIA. I started a new job this summer, and I'm having a little bit of trouble scheduling time to sit down and work on stuff (especially responding to messages). I've gotten to the point where I just kind of log in, remove vandalism, yell at some idiot, and log off. But I am hoping to make some more time soon - I'd started working on some Green Day stuff, but it looks like you've gotten the article a long way since then.

I'm actually waffling a little as to whether or not it's even worth putting the Cobain article up for FA. Nobody ever seems happy with the suicide/murder elements, and I half expect someone to object to the article for that section alone. -- ChrisB 05:19, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Batman

Really nice work on the Batman article, bringing it much more in line with Wikipedia's preference for avoiding wholly in-universe perspective in character biographies. Doczilla 19:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Re:Bat-scans!

I will try to get these within the next few days. There's also a cover with Bane doing that. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 07:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Here: I think I actually prefer the first page of Batman and the Outsiders to the cover. I still need to find something for Year One. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• Image:Batman-Outsiders-1.png
• Image:Batman-Outsiders-1pg1.png
• Image:Bane-breaks-Batman-497pg21.png
• Image:Detective-33-Bat.png

For the Year One images, what would you like? I can get anything, but I am thinking either the almost black and white picture of Bruce just sitting in front of the two gravestones or the frame where Batman says, "You've eaten well" as he attacks a bunch of rich people. Thoughts? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:55, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

SLTS

I noticed you have started including the tracklistings for each Smells Like Teen Spirit release. There are many more. If you go to this site: http://www.sliver.it/nirvana/test/index.html click on official releases, then look under singles it has the most complete list of releases for the song on the internet. It might be of some use for you. 195.137.109.177 13:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Post-Punk article

Hello,

I am going to start cleaning up the two Post-Punk articles. Just wanted to let you kow, as you seem to be the main person handling those articles. if you'd like to work together on this, I'd be happy to. To give you some idea of my involvement with the post-punk movement. I have been in touch with most of the new generation of post-punk revival bands through my site post-punk.com, as well as many of the original people involved with the scene. I have been studying the history of this style, and it's various influences and things it has influenced for the past 7 or so years.

Thanks, and I appreciate your passion for this movement. I'll try and let you know anytime I make any major edits to the article as well. --FACT50 21:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing. I'll be happy to do that. Thanks --FACT50 21:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

• I propose adding a general disclaimer to any of the bands in the post-punk list that may be disputed as Alternative. Perhaps something simple like. "This is a band that crossed over from Post-Punk to Alternative Rock in the mid-80's", or "This band is often categorized as both Post-Punk, and Alternative Rock". Or something along those lines. Personally the people that read and frequent my site always (and I mean even the older people that actually were part of the movement) refer to bands like J&MC, Pixies, Husker Du, Big Black as Post-Punk bands. Albeit later Post-Punk. I think by doing this we would eliminate the debate of whether or not many of these bands belong in the list. I almost removed the RHCP from the list, because in my opinion they were more influenced by straight Funk. However it has recently come to light that they were and are huge fans of Gang of Four. So I left the link. I did not include Janes Addiction, Fishbone, or Fugazi because while they were all influenced by Post-Punk in their own ways, none of them were directly attempting to keep the post-punk sound alive. Rather take elements from those bands to create their own styles. Which is why I included some of the later 80's bands such as Mighty Lemon Drops, and Kitchens of Distinction, because both of those bands were proudly attempting to revitalize the dying Post-Punk scene at that time. Actually I should also add Disco Inferno. Their first LP is a straight homage to Factory Records and bands like Wire as well. Furthermore I think that a true cut off point for the Post-Punk revival, and the original run of bands is 1991. This is right around the time where anything being released that was influenced by Post-Punk was being categorized as Dreampop and Shoegaze. Prior to that, their were still bands creating music in the same mold as the original 77-83 era. I also highly reccomend you find a copy of George Gimarcs "Post-Punk Diaries 1980-83". It is a sequel to his older book "The Punk Diary 1977-79", and covers a HUGE range of bands that IMHO belong in the Post-Punk canon. It also predates Simon Reynoylds book by a good 5 or 6 years.

As far as the link goes that is fine. I'll just go post a bulletin on my myspace account, and have one of our readers re-instate it. I had this problem recently when my music project had it's article removed too. Thanks --FACT50 17:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• Actually ignore all of that, I came up with a very simple solution. I created a new sub-header for Post-Punk influenced bands. I'm tossing everything between 1984-1991 in this section (including Husker Du, Big Black, and RHCP), I'm also going to create a sub-header for notable labels that released Post-Punk bands in the 80's. If you feel this belongs in a seperate article, feel free to move it. Also please add any labels I might have missed. --FACT50 18:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• I had to put The Stone Roses back on the list, because some of their earliest songs such as "Fall", and "So Young" (as heard on the Garage Flower EP) are outright Post-Punk music. I'm fine with the removal of the other Madchester bands though, in hindsight I suppose that was kind of a backlash to Post-Punk. --FACT50 18:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• Well I could argue The Smiths place with songs such as "London" but they are already a pretty huge and well known band, so i don't mind if we don't include them. I added Janes Addiction (I was debating adding them earlier, but only included Perry Farrels first band "Psi-Com"). I was debating Primus, but I don't think they would really fit in well with this list, even though they do draw a bit of influence from some older post-punk bands. I'd like to keep Sonic Youth in the old school links, because they did start in 1980/81 right at the tail end of the No Wave movement (if I'm not mistaken). Though they really came to prominence during the mid 80's. I'm cool with the list we have for now, I think between the two of us we've covered just about every known post-punk band. --FACT50 18:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Nick Drake

Hi Wesley, if you get a chance at some stage, would you mind reading over Nick Drake. I've put the article up for Peer Review, would like to eventually take it to FAC, and would appreciate any critical comment/direction. On a side note, I think The Smashing Pumpkins is about there for FA, it's certainly a good story and well told in the article. BTY, If you want sound files added to this or any other article, just ask. - Coil00 20:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I've left a few suggestion on my talk. - Coil00 21:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok. You might give me a hand with the captions over the next few days, if you have time. Wasn't trilled by the Zen Arcade samples either, maybe worth bringing up on the talk page there. And thanks for the N. Drake copyedits. - Coil00 22:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That's ok - to be honest, I really dislike Led Zepplin, except maybe for 'Rock&Roll', which I consider a fluke good song. My girlfriend likes them though (sigh), and so I do have many, many files. What in the hell does 'MST3K' mean though. Ach, the Mondays, but what great bass lines. The singing and guitar was often poor though, I suppose. - Coil00 00:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Character history section

I noticed your comment on Talk:Xorn. Is there anywhere it's written in policy or guidance that a character with few appearances should not have a character history section? If not, there should be. Any idea where to put that? The WP:CMC talk page or WP:WAF? It seems that character articles are just created to house their history and left. --Psyphics_ΨΦ 20:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I think I wasn't all that clear, though I agree with what you said. I was thinking that minor characters, with few appearances of no greater import than "Mr. X fought Spider-Man in issue #223 of The Amazing Spider-Man" should have maybe a character sketch, but they don't need a play-by-play of that battle (or those few battles). I was thinking it'd be better to remove the history from these characters and instead insert a character sketch, describing the character's origin, powers, and maybe costume at most, if not just the origin and powers. Like the character descriptions in the Young Avengers article. --Psyphics_ΨΦ 14:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Rock infobox

The template needs to be easy read. I've removed a lot of sub-genres, and cleaned it up a little bit, but since there is so much information one needs to be able to navigate it well. It allows the more popular/influentual ones to top the list, so people can find what they want without having to read every single one to find what they are looking for. I looked at what you said in the edit summary and tried to fix that. It needs to be fixed, so what would you change about this layout:

Punk Rock FAR

Hi Wesley, as you predicted Punk Rock is up for FAR. The concerns are the lead (too short) and inline citations (not enough). I can fill out the refs if you wouldn't mind taking a look at the lead. - Coil00 00:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget to vote on this one. Good work on the lead, bty. + Ceoil 20:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"While it is thought that punk declined in the 1980s". Sentence is problematic, the intended meaning is unclear. 'declined' -in qaulity, popularity, sales, or what. When in the 80's, and who thought that, etc, etc. I realise its a ref to punks-not-dead (per exploited etc), but I'm having diffuculty citing the current wording, would appreciated if you could copy edit, as it has been tagged. + Ceoil 01:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you take a look at this, and let me know your toughts? I'm open to suggestion on this, but my reasoning is that this format makes it easier to follow, and to add to. Thanks. + Ceoil 21:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, will incorporate. The new headings make the article look a little imbalanced, and as it moves to FARC on Monday, I'd appreciate some input if you have time. Ideally, the history section should open with an acknowledgement that punk originated in NY, but was defined by the '76 UK bands, and that they've been fighting about it ever since. I've made a few attempts at conveying this, but didn't quite get there. Also, I'm not really a fan of pop-punk, and know relatively little about it; though I do think NOFX should get equal billing to Green Day (always striked me a Pixies/Nirvana type relationship). + Ceoil 00:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Zoo TV

I did a big copy edit. Some of the stuff i can't believe was in there. Lots of unreferenced WP:OR, sentionlist wording (including the word sentional), etc, etc. I think there is also waaaaaaaaaaay too much rehashing of the each stage of the show, and very little discussion of the themes. The little discussion there is is done badly. JUdging from your minor edit battle today, you might like my changes: [7] --Merbabu 09:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, have you ever thought about archiving your talk page? You can leave say the last two weeks - or how muhc you want. See mine: User talk:Merbabu. It's easy.--Merbabu 09:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:GREEN DAY

Hi, I've seen you frequently around the article Green Day and other related articles. Please consider joining the Green Day WikiProject, an effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage and detail regarding Green Day. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks that you can help with. Thank you for your time.

 Orfen ^{User Talk} | _Contribs 20:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)