Talk:Pizza

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"Pizza!" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Pizza! has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 6 § Pizza! until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 14:22, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dessert pizza[edit]

It has been suggested at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dessert pizza that dessert pizza should redirect to a section of this page, which I think is a good idea. Watch this space. Andrewa (talk) 21:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is my suggestion. Andrewa (talk) 22:07, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've expanded it. PamD 07:51, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion: Pizza Margherita[edit]

I'm no one to say whether a rule is correct or not, but I think the rule that an article must maintain the author's chosen English is counterproductive; pizza Margherita, of course, is NOT a US-only subject, and therefore should have the most common English, British English. I would like objective answers, not preferences (I'm neutral). Note: this will be my last discussion about the use of British and American English, I'm not used to American English (most Europeans, actually). JacktheBrown (talk) 19:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I noticed this post at the time, @JackkBrown, but please read MOS:ENGVAR and MOS:RETAIN. If you want to argue that those rules should be changed, this article's talk page is not the place to do so. (And, sadly, I think that "the most common English" these days is not British but American. Me, I'm British, but after years of exposure I know what they mean by "eggplant" and "ground beef", as well as recognising that "color" isn't a typo but a variation we sometimes have to live with.) PamD 14:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PamD: yes, American English is the most popular if we consider the number of inhabitants, but it's important to understand that in Europe, fortunately, British English (the original English) is taught and American English is considered a mistake. Before anyone is offended by reading this conversation, American English isn't bad, but I prefer, and by far, British English. JacktheBrown (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JackkBrown But your preference has no relevance to this discussion. I prefer British English too, but we follow Wikipedia's rules when editing this international encyclopedia. PamD 21:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PamD: I responded to your sentence "And, sadly, I think that "the most common English" these days is not British but American", nothing more. JacktheBrown (talk) 21:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
JackkBrown, when you write American English is considered a mistake, that is a ludicrous statement. The US has 330 million residents, the UK has about 68 million residents and Italy has 59 million people. In other words, there are well over two and a half times as many speakers of American English as there are UK residents and Italians put together. And there are about 18 million Italian Americans who speak American English with great enthusiasm. American English is not only a perfectly valid form of English, it is the now the dominant form of English worldwide. I say that as an American who has great respect for the writing of Shakespeare, Churchill and Elvis Costello. Let's drop the chauvinism, please. Cullen328 (talk) 08:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cullen328: I wrote that in Europe British English is taught and, consequently, in Europe American English is considered a mistake (at least in Italy); you misunderstood my comment. JacktheBrown (talk) 09:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your statement remains false. Why on Earth would native Italian speakers be in a position to decide that American English is a mistake? The notion is ludicrous. Cullen328 (talk) 18:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cullen328: I'm referring to schools, I should have specified that. I don't know the schools in other European countries in detail, but in Italian schools British English is taught and American English is considered a mistake (red pen);[1] I repeat, I'm referring to schools. JacktheBrown (talk) 22:05, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
JackkBrown, surely that does not apply to the American Overseas School of Rome or the American School of Milan or the Marymount International School Rome or the International School of Florence or the International School of Trieste or St. Stephen's School, Rome. Cullen328 (talk) 23:29, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, JackkBrown, the final sentences of the article you linked to say: To conclude, it is everyday practice that excites us, not armchair disquisitions. In short, long live English! Whether British or American. Because it is always English! I suggest that you follow the advice of the article you provided and avoid "armchair disquisitions". Cullen328 (talk) 23:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Arangio, F. (2023, November 19). Tips and tricks. Cube Education Srl - All Rights Reserved. https://www.buzzyenglish.com/it/article/british-english-vs-american-english#:~:text=Nella%20scuola%20dell%27obbligo%20italiano,alla%20televisione%20e%20la%20musica.

Which English?[edit]

The creator of the first stub used UK English in "favourite", but US "eggplant" appeared pretty soon, and as has been pointed out US English was used in what could be considered the first substantial version (colors, "ground meat"). A {{Use British English}} was a recent addition, and has come and gone a couple of times. So let's have the {{Use American English}} and, for consistency, {{Use mdy dates}}. It also looks as if pizza probably spread from Itlay to the US before becoming popular elsewhere round the world, another valid reason for US English. PamD 14:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If American English was established as of the first non-stub version, that's what we should use in the absence of any other valid reason. I do think a tag would be helpful, since there's been recent editing away from the established English variety. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Firefangledfeathers Agreed. I've reinstated it after its recent removal. PamD 23:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PamD: I disagree with the reinstatement of the tag, mainly because it was originally added before the first response to this discussion (14:46: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pizza&diff=prev&oldid=1225291854; 14:47: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pizza&diff=prev&oldid=1225291982); first of all, I would recommend reaching a consensus and not acting before having reached it, and you added the tag one minute after the start of the conversation, and moreover without any response. JacktheBrown (talk) 23:40, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JackkBrown But have you got any actual argument as to why the tag should not be added? PamD 06:09, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PamD: no, but before adding the tag it would be right to wait for at least one response. I'm neutral, neither agree nor disagree; I simply don't agree with the way. JacktheBrown (talk) 06:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with JackkBrown, putting the tag on the article in what you intend to be a permanent placement one minute after raising the question here was ridiculous. Especially as JackkBrown clearly stated that British English was long-established, so it would have been polite at the least to allow him to comment before acting. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 06:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read the immediately above discussion, @LindsayH? This is disruptive editing by an editor who seems to believe that BrEng is the One True English. I have been working with them for weeks now trying to encourage them to be less disruptive. Valereee (talk) 22:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Valereee. Yes, though most of the discussion above occurred after my comment, i believe. I have no dog in this fight, i don't believe in One True English, because what i speak/write is fully in line with none of the varieties; my concern was purely the timing, which seemed less than collegial, so i have no comment on anyone being disruptive, indeed, i'm only replying because i don't want you to think i'm taking sides. To be clear: I am happy for the article to wear the US variety tag, because that seems to fit our policies. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 14:06, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The section heading was a rhetorical question, not an intention to open a discussion, because it seems to me quite obvious that the {{Use American English}} template is appropriate for this article.
Any Wikipedia article should be written in a consistent version of English: I hope no-one disagrees with that.
This article appears not to have had a template about version of English until @JackkBrown added {{Use British English}} (to an article which at that point used "colors" and "ground beef") on 26 April. They then removed it on 22 May and replaced it on 23 May.
Meanwhile @Ahecht: pointed out that the first substantial version had been in American English, which is how we decide which version of English to use for an article. It seems to me to be obvious that this article should be in American English, and no-one has yet produced any reasoned argument for (a) having no template about language or (b) using British English. PamD 07:26, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JackkBrown, you said you were no longer interested in arguing this point? Valereee (talk) 22:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee: yes, in the sense that I will not start new discussions; in the meantime, I have finished what I started. JacktheBrown (talk) 22:14, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aight. I think you should WP:drop the stick. Valereee (talk) 22:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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