Talk:Margaret Bonga Fahlstrom

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Contextual information[edit]

I've enjoyed seeing the edits this page is going through over the past weeks, with many improvements from the original. I do want to discuss adding back in some of the contextual information about Fahlstrom's life. One of the difficulties with Bonga is the lack of direct information about her day-to-day life and contributions. Without additional context, these historical biases make it difficult to present much more than a bare outline of her life. While I agree with much of the stream-lining and reorg that has been occurring, I still think a few points should get mentioned in her article, even if briefly.

Areas I think help readers in understanding Bonga's life include:

1. Marriages between fur traders and Native American women and the interconnections between the tribes and European/White culture.

2. How Native women contributed economically and socially through their skills and connections.

3. The Fahlstroms lived for a time near Coldwater Spring. I think it deserves a mention that the site was/is sacred to the Dakota, then taken over by the U.S. army. The Fahlstroms lived here for a time before being forced to leave. Access to this site it still contested today.

4. Her mixed-race heritage and what it might have meant when living near enslaved people and between Native American and White cultures (as of now, this topic is still covered in the article).

I'm interested to hear any other editors take on this, as I haven't edited that many historical figures before. My sense of Bonga is that she lived quite an interesting life, and I hope this page can reflect that. Be4waugh (talk) 15:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. Still a work in progress. Still adding many basic facts about her life that are missing, and making corrections. Some of the issues you mention will be addressed.

There were many factual errors and mistakes in your original article, but you did provide many references which has helped immensely with fact-checking and cross-referencing additional sources.

Another problem with the original article was that it was very heavy on academic discussion of historical topics and tangential details, and very light on facts and discussion of the actual subject, obscuring what little information actually exists about her.

One of the biggest challenges about biographical entries in Wikipedia and encyclopaedias more generally is exactly this: How much contextual information to include. Some of the issues you mention such as marriages between fur traders and Native American women are well covered on other Wikipedia pages, which is why we link to them. Some of the detail about other family members belongs on those individuals' pages; same with historical sites and current locations. Feel free to add to those pages. Even if some of the issues are relevant, it's scope creep for a historical biography in an encyclopaedia.

Also, remember that original research is not permitted on Wikipedia. (See Wikipedia:No original research) If you find a reliable source that argues that the subject was directly affected by the facts you mention, you can cite those. Otherwise, it probably doesn't belong.

Overall it seems like you have a very ambitious vision for a larger work like a magazine or blog article, or even a whole book, also with some insightful analysis. I'm sincerely excited to see what that looks like. Unfortunately Wikipedia isn't the right place for it. Cielquiparle (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am excited to see the page as it continues forward and appreciate the work you have put into it. I am aware of the Wikipedia:No original research guidelines and do not believe I violated them, and although I would be interested in such an article/book, too, I have no plans to write it myself. Source #6, the "Women of the Mississippi" article, does bring up these points and draws some inferences about how Bonga lived based on known context from the time period. As a note, I didn't write that article, nor was I involved in the research for it, but I am working to post biographical pages of all the women written about in that project.

I think you are right that point #1 is well covered elsewhere. I do think some mention of point #2 is still relevant even if inferred. Otherwise, I worry Bonga is mainly defined by her relatives/spouse which, at least for a living person, might get into problems with Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Family. Of course, this is frustrating due to the paucity of the historical record in describing her when compared to her husband. For #3, one of the few actual facts known about Bonga was her residency near Coldwater, and that she and her family were forced to leave the site. Since Coldwater Spring was/is a culturally significant site to the Ojibwe people, with whom the Fahlstroms maintained kinship ties, I do think it is worth mentioning directly in the article.

Anyway, I can see you have a lot of expertise in the area, so now that I have added my two cents, I'll leave it alone, but glad to have participated in this discussion. Be4waugh (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Topics all covered now. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:38, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]