Talk:List of video games considered the best

Lists

The omnibus list data is located here; use the headers at the left to jump to the list(s) you want to check. Phediuk (talk) 19:15, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

There's a new list from For the Win (FTW!) - USA Today, I don't know if it meets the inclusion criteria but I'll post the link here: https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/best-video-games-all-time-list-zelda-mario Andrija.s. (talk) 10:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DW-2yjPbKkdj4qaIkE85VsT1T2uhDwxsPn70kfuHimw/edit

This is the link to the Google Doc for my List of Top 100 Games by Number of Referenced Sources + Almost Top 100. I will be making updates exclusively on the Google Doc from now on. XJJSX (talk) 00:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Glad the fun got preserved somewhere more appropriately. Almost trivial, yes, but a minor pleasure to see. Thanks overall for your efforts on this article. :)

(Btw @Phediuk on the omnibus and spreadsheet thing I had the ugliest double take upon realizing they were already listed in the FAQ. My dumb brain thought there was no Q4 somehow, LOL.) Carlinal (talk) 01:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Carlinal It was actually part of Q1 all along, but I explicitly moved it to Q4 to be clearer last night. -- ferret (talk) 01:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

For Hardcore Gaming 101, I assume the 2020 list is so short because it's the same as the 2015 list, but a few new games were added. However, both lists are the top 200 games of all time, meaning some games from the 2015 list must not have appeared on the 2020 list to make room for the new games. Do you know which games from the 2015 list didn't make it to the 2020 list? 100.16.223.83 (talk) 03:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

The 2020 HG101 list is an addendum to the original list of 200; no games were removed to make room for them. Phediuk (talk) 16:55, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

The top 100 games by number of referenced sources using only sources from the past ten years list is here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qhUnal80p0H42sRjMvONXCtYozBzFgFcFxWb98HMSvQ/edit?usp=drivesdk 100.16.223.83 (talk) 04:27, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

USA Today, 2024

The other day, the editorial team of USA Today's video games section, For the Win, published their “definitive ranking of the top 30 video games of all time”. Since the list is from a RS, editor-chosen, unrestricted by platform/genre/era, and explicitly about the best games, I will incorporate it onto the main page, if there are no objections. Note that while the list includes Resident Evil 2, the entry does not clarify whether it means the 1998 or the 2019 game, and the entry writeup contains nothing that clearly ties it to either game specifically. Due to this uncertainty, I will not count this entry. Also, although the list is ranked according to how many members of the team chose each game, the list does not assign any ranking numbers to the games, except for #30; therefore, I have left the transcription unranked.

USA Today, 2024

Grand Theft Auto V The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past New World Starcraft: Brood War The Sims World of Warcraft Baldur’s Gate III SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Mass Effect 2 Fortnite The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Anthem The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Star Fox 64 Street Fighter II Elden Ring Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 Resident Evil 2 (version not clarified; not counted) Mortal Kombat (1992) Grand Theft Auto III Goldeneye (1997) Pokemon Red, Blue, and Yellow Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time Super Mario Bros. 3 Tetris Red Dead Redemption 2 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Super Mario 64

No new entries to be added to the main page, since many of the listed games here overlap with USA Today's list from 2022 (which was cross-published, in somewhat modified form, in Sports Illustrated.) Phediuk (talk) 17:52, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Go ahead and add it Timur9008 (talk) 17:59, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Can there at least be a list of games that receive an entry closer to being put on the page with this? λ NegativeMP1 18:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I have incorporated the USA Today list, and added it to the omnibus data. As for the inquiry above, Anthem, New World, Baldur's Gate III, Starcraft: Brood War, The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, and SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs have gone from 0 publications to 1; Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time has gone from 2 to 3. Phediuk (talk) 20:58, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Alright, finally. Thus it begins for Baldur's Gate III and TOTK. For some reason I thought Turtles in Time would be at least one entry higher. Carlinal (talk) 23:41, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Omnibus visualized data has been updated. BenSVE (talk) 00:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

The 2022 USA Today/2023 Sports Illustrated Lists have the 2019 version of Resident Evil 2. Wouldn't it be fair to assume that's the version they're talking about in their 2024 list? 100.16.223.83 (talk) 03:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

"Best Games of All Time" articles are frequently console-only; NPOV issue to exclude them

I was reading this list today and noticed it did not include the Electronic Gaming Monthly best games lists I remember reading in the 1990s. I found them and added them. These additions were then reverted for EGM excluding PC games.

This raises a major neutral point of view issue for the article. The article gives exclusive weight to published ratings and rankings that are "inclusive of all games released up to that point"; aka they include both Console and PC games.

This exclusive weight to Console + PC publications is WP:UNDUE, because contemporary "best games of all time" lists written by reliable third-party sources were often console-only. For example, Electronic Gaming Monthly and Famitsu.

Even the PC + Console lists currently cited in this article probably did not consider "all games". We absolutely should not be going through and checking that the writers considered handheld games, and arcade games, and mobile games. Leaving out a certain category of games is evidently fine, ipso facto reliable third party sources publishing "best game of all time lists" without including those categories.

A widely read article titled "Best 100 Games of All Time" published by a reliable third party source that doesn't include PC games, or mobile games, but does include arcade games and games from 30+ consoles over several decades needs to be eligible for this list per WP:DUE. These all-console lists should be collated with other such lists by other publications that include Console + PC, or Console + PC + Mobile, or Console + Arcade to produce the combined list of games that is shown on Wikipedia.

PK-WIKI (talk) 04:58, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi; all lists included on this page are vetted to ensure they include no platform/era/genre restrictions. EGM covers only console games, and is thus ineligible, just as Computer Gaming World covers only computer games, and is thus also ineligible. Contrary to your claim that top games lists are "frequently console-only", the available evidence shows that "Top [Console] Games of All Time" has not been a common format for such lists; as you can observe on this page, EGM is pretty much the only publication that has done so, as the 2006 Famitsu list is also a reader poll on top of that. Lists without platform restrictions are demonstrably more common than console-only lists, even when just looking at sources from the 1990s (such as the ones already incorporated here.) Phediuk (talk) 16:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Your "vetting to ensure they include no platform/era/genre restrictions" is the problem; this is WP:UNDUE weight given to lists with "no platform restrictions" when at least one platform restriction, the PC/Console divide, has historically been considered a norm in the video game publication industry.

I see this has been discussed in the past at the wikiproject:

That said, I disagree with the idea that "only" lists that are strictly "list of best games" ever should qualify as a good source. For better or for worse, there traditionally was a large divide between computer games and video games. For example, take the 2006 EGM list "The Greatest 200 Videogames of Their Time" ( link ). It is a great source: it is from a respected-at-the-time dead tree print publication with editorial oversight, it is cross-platform, it covers the then-current history of gaming. But: it doesn't include computer games. Is this cause to throw it out? In the same way, PC Gamer 2013 had a "Top 100 Computer Games of all time." Nothing console-exclusive in it. I think a combined list can be made just fine as long as lists on both sides of the divide are included. - User:SnowFire

I don't think by omitting a certain platform means any opinions on Ocarina of Time or whatever game they list at the top becomes automatically invalid just because of that. - User:Dissident93

These games were hailed as the "100 Best Games of All Time" by a top-tier gaming industry editorial source across a wide range of platforms constituting the majority of all video games. That they don't include one gaming platform in their rankings is immaterial.

PK-WIKI (talk) 22:00, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the article used to use EGM 2006. Yes, it's a good source, IMO, worthy of inclusion at the time, so I stand by my old comment there. (Although calling computer games "one" gaming platform is a bit loaded - it was a very large "platform".)

However, a bit of background. My earlier work, while it used some sources "restricted" to an era, was careful to "balance" it out and ensure that, say, the EGM list was counterbalanced by a computer-only list, or that multiple generation-specific lists to the same generation weren't used). But that was just one editor's kneejerk. Certain user / users began spamming up the article with very low-quality sources at the time (and I gave up trying to revert them) and put the article in a dire state (we're talking, like, user-submitted ranker.com lists). To try to restore sanity and avoid too much "one editor's take", the result was strict rules directly enforced: has to cover everything. Has to be by journalists / can't be a poll. Has to come from different publications. There is a method behind the madness here: That way we don't have to do any manual editor-driven balance picks, because everything is all-games anyway. Once we allow XYZ-specific lists on, there's the risk of having, say, 10 lists that cover consoles and 1 list that covers computer games, or vice versa. Being strict means that this conversation is preempted.

In general, we've found enough sources now that being strict is fine - we're using plenty of lists, and the main goal is to hit the critical mass where one eccentric list can't really do any "damage". With 88 (!) sources used, we're there. So we don't need to stretch eligibility in the name of getting more sources in.

If there's truly a desire to expand the sourcing criteria, I'd say a more fruitful possibility isn't console-only lists, but rather foreign sources - the current source collection is somewhat Anglosphere-centric. It could be argued that if the Japanese media insists on using polls, we should be stuck honoring that even if we don't like it. But that's a separate issue. SnowFire (talk) 23:05, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

That said, I do think that it could be argued we may eventually need to loosen the chronological criteria. Right now, if a publication makes a list of the best games of all time and in an amazing coincidence they're all from 2000 or later, that's fine, but if the same publication calls it the "best games since 2000", it's ineligible. So I do get the idea that we shouldn't over-stress "must include absolutely everything" since realistically no journalist has played Every Game Ever. Just, per above, we already have plenty of decent sources as is, so we'd need a better reason to loosen the criteria. I'd be more willing to loosen the criteria for, say, a recently published high-quality list with a trivial restriction, than EGM 2006 which doesn't really get us anywhere new. SnowFire (talk) 23:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

There are several significant sources of bias that are baked into the sources. A lot of old lists are not cross-platform, partially because meaningful cross-platform game engines are a relatively modern thing. In the 80s and 90s, it was normal to distinguish "video games" from "computer games" (look at how old publications like Computer and Video Games or PC Gamer had different focuses). Arcade games were their own lane. It means that a lot of older rankings are excluded because the video game market hadn't consolidated yet. A lot of older games are left off, and it's amplified by a recentism bias.

I don't know that Wikipedia can ever "unskew" the rankings, and I believe that introducing new criteria or exceptions risks crossing over into WP:OR. We think we are removing bias, but we are substituting our own bias. "At least X rankings" is already WP:OR, and it may have the unintended effect of making this list more biased towards long-running franchises with good PR across multiple decades. It will naturally be biased against games from defunct series or studios who aren't maintaining that game's legacy anymore. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Two Edge lists to reconsider

Both of these lists have been discussed here before, but I'm not skilled enough at navigating Wikipedia to find said discussions. Apologies if the points that I'm about to raise are nothing new, but at least it will be an easy response.

The first is this one from 2009: It was deemed ineligible due to the list being a "best games to play today" rather than a typical "best games of all time" list. However, the GamesRadar+ lists from 2011 to 2015 were formulated in the same way, and they are included here. I'll quote from the blurbs of each of these lists to illustrate what I mean:

From their 2011 and 2012 lists (they both say the same thing): "For each contender, we asked ourselves: Would we really recommend this to a friend today? Some games are truly timeless and will entertain no matter how old the graphics or how outdated the interface. The ones that aren’t… aren’t here."

From their 2013 list: "Our list ranks the best games to play today, and that's also why we refresh this list every year. Games like GoldenEye might be historically important, but they’re not necessarily what we’d pick up and play right now."

From their 2014 list: "GoldenEye. Ocarina of Time. Final Fantasy 7. Doom. None of those are on our list of the 100 Best Games of All Time. They're all important, and they were some of the best games at the time they released, but things change." And, "It's with that in mind that we rank the best games to play today, and that's also why we refresh this list every year. We're focusing on the experiences that, in 2014, are the best examples of the medium, and that means being honest about what plays well sans rose-tinted glasses."

From their 2015 list: "Forget nostalgia - these are the finest games you can play right now, even accounting for modern standards or series unfamiliarity. [...] This isn't a compendium of the most important games of all time, either; historic significance doesn't mean diddly if it ain't still fun to play."

So, if these GamesRadar+ lists are included, then I feel like the 2009 Edge list should also be included.

The other list is one from 2007. It was deemed ineligible due to it being a user poll, but this is not entirely true. From the blurb, "The list was drawn together by thousands of reader votes, games industry insiders and the view from Edge's own editorial team." It is not stated how much weight the reader votes were given, but there is reason to believe that their impact was negligible. The list bears strong similarities to other Edge lists, particularly the ones from 2015 and 2017 (based on computer analysis). Detailing all of those similarities would be impossible to do here, but, to give one example, the top six games on this list are the same as the top six on the above list, just in a different order. This indicates to me that the impact of reader votes was negligible, and, for that reason, I think it should be included. IlmeniAVG (talk) 12:29, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

One factor in the 2009 Edge list's favor is that it explicitly defines itself in the first sentence as a "deliberation over the best games of all time". In that case, I think it would be suitable, and judging from a cursory examination, Peggle would be added to the page. The one thing that gives me pause is that I seem not to be able to access the upper portions of the list; this page gives me an error. Are the games listed in full anywhere? Phediuk (talk) 13:48, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

VideoGameCanon has the full list here: https://www.videogamecanon.com/lists/edge-2009/

Alternatively, try going back from this archive page. It's a later capture of the same list: https://web.archive.org/web/20121017171031/http://www.edge-online.com/features/100-best-games-play-today/11/ IlmeniAVG (talk) 14:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Excellent; that works. Thank you. The list meets all the criteria, so I see no reason not to incorporate it. I have transcribed thelist below:

Edge, 2009

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 2. Super Mario 64 3. Half-Life 2 4. Resident Evil 4 (2005) 5. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 6. Super Mario World 7. Tetris 8. Super Mario Galaxy 9. Halo 3 10. Yoshi’s Island 11. LittleBigPlanet 12. Grand Theft Auto IV 13. Left 4 Dead 14. Street Fighter IV 15. Rock Band 2 16. Super Metroid 17. World of Warcraft 18. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 19. Civilization IV 20. Super Mario Bros. 3 21. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 22. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 23. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 24. Virtua Fighter 5 25. Final Fantasy XII 26. Medieval II: Total War 27. Mario Kart DS 28. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 29. Advance Wars 30. Company of Heroes 31. Bomberman (series) 32. Team Fortress 2 33. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 34. Bioshock 35. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 36. Burnout Paradise 37. Fallout 3 38. Starcraft 39. Super Monkey Ball 40. WarioWare Inc.: Mega Microgame$! 41. Race Driver: Grid 42. FIFA 09 43. Portal 44. Jet Set Radio Future 45. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 46. Disgaea: Afternoon of Darkness 47. Eve Online 48. Final Fantasy VII 49. Rez HD 50. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes 51. R-Type Final 52. Fable II 53. Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune 54. Ico 55. Pokemon Yellow 56. Counter-Strike: Source 57. Deus Ex 58. Gears of War 2 59. Viewtiful Joe 60. Bust-a-Move 61. Robotron: 2084 62. Ninja Gaiden II (2008) 63. Lemmings 64. Puyo Puyo Fever 65. Thief II: The Metal Age 66. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 67. Chrono Trigger 68. Shadow of the Colossus 69. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 70. Daytona USA 71. Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast 72. Skate 2 73. Frequency 74. Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords 75. F-Zero GX 76. Planescape: Torment 77. The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask 78. X-COM: UFO Defense 79. Pac-Man: Championship Edition 80. Quake II 81. Silent Hill 2 82. Sam & Max Hit the Road 83. Peggle 84. God of War (2005) 85. The Secret of Monkey Island 86. Singstar 87. Doom II 88. Panel de Pon 89. Final Fantasy VI 90. Braid 91. Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory 92. Animal Crossing: City Folk 93. The Sims 2 94. Space Giraffe 95. Football Manager 2009 96. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 97. Resident Evil (2002) 98. Star Fox 64 99. Far Cry 100. R4: Ridge Racer Type 4

If there are no objections, I will incorporate this list shortly; Peggle and Super Smash Bros. Brawl will be added to the main page. Phediuk (talk) 21:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I do not object Alena 33 (talk) 01:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Done. I have also added the 2009 Edge list to the omnibus data. Phediuk (talk) 14:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm confused on why they both appeared now when Peggle and Brawl respectively have seven and eight sources at this point. I'm also asking if we should add the remainder of Peggle's publishers, Electronic Arts and Mindscape. Carlinal (talk) 22:12, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Both had six or more sources but only five publications. I don't think EA ever published the first Peggle (it was added solely because the game's listing on EA Origin) and Mindscape is a recent, unsourced, and undiscussed addition—so I think just listing PopCap is suitable here. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 22:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

For anyone who might be wondering over the next few days, I am currently away, so the omnibus data visualized will be updated next weekend. BenSVE (talk) 00:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

What's the point of adding this when Edge 2017 already exists on the list? 100.16.223.83 (talk) 02:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Should Persona 5 be included?

I don't have access to many best game lists or anything, but it seems strange the game isn't on the list yet considering its pedigree, how much game publications seem to love it, and the fact that the Wikipedia page itself says it's considered one of the best rpgs of all time. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't been added sooner! 66.253.187.27 (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Is using articles from the same people but from different years allowed? Because I took a look at that omnibus list data from up top and, when factoring in those different year best game lists, like ign's 2019 and 2021 lists, persona 5 scrapes by with six articles calling it a best game of all time, but I'm not sure if that counts or not. 66.253.187.27 (talk) 03:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Each publication only counts once. Persona 5 / Royal is at five of six entries, so it won't be long before it's included on the list. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 03:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for letting me know. 66.253.187.27 (talk) 03:59, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

If you're seeing this now, Persona 5 (and Elden Ring) are now considered one of the Greatest Games of All Time! Congratulations! Fujimotofan235 (talk) 20:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

It's not like an achievement or anything but I guess it does show and confirm a stage of critical recognition. And both games are now added thanks to a surprisingly legit source by Screen Rant, of all things. Total OMEGALUL. Carlinal (talk) 23:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2024

Stardew Valley is considered role-playing genre! 2001:E68:545A:1FFF:F8C0:7836:8544:1EF2 (talk) 22:42, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Per the lead at Stardew Valley. The infobox names two genres but we only list one here. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

New list from GamingBolt

This video released today as a 2024 edition of the GamingBolt best games of all time list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Kg7HzboGs

Huntergem1 (talk) 12:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Full list is here:

GamingBolt, 2024

1. Red Dead Redemption 2 2. Elden Ring 3. Baldur's Gate III 4. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth 5. The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom 6. The Last of Us 7. Dragon's Dogma II 8. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 9. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 10. Grand Theft Auto V 11. Dark Souls 12. Bloodborne 13. Horizon Forbidden West 14. Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice 15. Super Mario Odyssey 16. Starfield 17. Monster Hunter World 18. Mass Effect 2 19. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 20. God of War Ragnarok 21. Resident Evil 2 (2019) 22. Half-Life 2 23. Control 24. Dead Space (2023) 25. Street Fighter 6 26. Marvel's Spider Man 2 27. Alien: Isolation 28. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 29. Forza Horizon 5 30. Tekken 8

--Anonymouseditor2k19 (talk) 02:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Video title is "TOP 30 Games of All Time You Need To Play". A ranked list from a reliable publication, although the selection here consists mainly of 2010s titles, and I think Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is the oldest. Carlinal (talk) 05:54, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

It seems like we have two new entries for the list: Alien: Isolation and Elden Ring, both appearing on their sixth list. Malalatargaryen (talk) 07:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

To correct myself - the only game making its sixth list is Alien: Isolation, as Elden Ring has previously appeared on the 2022 and 2023 GamingBolt lists, so still only five different publications. Malalatargaryen (talk) 07:20, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for transcribing this list. I will incorporate it shortly, and add an entry for Alien: Isolation accordingly. Phediuk (talk) 20:22, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Done. I have also added the 2024 GamingBolt list to the omnibus data. Phediuk (talk) 00:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

List of Top 100 Games by Number of Referenced Sources Updated (Lists talk page for link). XJJSX (talk) 01:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Visualized data has been updated. BenSVE (talk) 01:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Edge (2015) "Bomberman" entry (82nd)

While the position is awarded to "Bomberman", it's clear from the blurb that this is meant to refer to the series, rather than a specific game. On which specific game they thing stands out the most, they said the following (source):

"while it's difficult to pick a single, series-defining game from a collection this large, Saturn Bomberman remains one of the highest points."

Saturn Bomberman is the only game discussed at length in the blurb. I say we consider this an entry for Saturn Bomberman, not Bomberman. IlmeniAVG (talk) 15:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. However, the Bomberman entry there is still explicitly for the whole series; even its discussion of Saturn calls it only "one of" the highlights of the series, not the single best. Therefore, I argue we should not count this entry for Saturn specifically. Phediuk (talk) 00:56, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Considering it a series entry also makes sense. However, unless I'm mistaken, the omnibus data does not have it as a series entry (other series entries have "(series)" following, whereas this just says "Bomberman"). Does this need to be corrected? Also, what about the Edge 2017 list? I don't have access to the original source, so I'm not sure what the Bomberman entry (86th) looks like, but it also lacks the "(series)" tag in the omnibus data. Can someone with access to it please check? IlmeniAVG (talk) 02:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

What version of Tetris?

There are so many different versions of Tetris, some better than others... Are all of these versions worthy of being considered among the best games ever made, or just a few of these versions, or even just one? FiveBlue (talk) 18:44, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

It's like with The Oregon Trail; both games are ported to death and some ports have varying significance, but we stick with the first versions. While the Atari and two Nintendo ports are the most historic, Tetris originated on the Electronika 60. It would be unreasonably complicated to split by every port for something near-identical in concepts and gameplay. Carlinal (talk) 19:43, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

As I understand it, all Classic Tetris games can be eligible, including those released only in Japan, except Guideline and TGM games, correct? FiveBlue (talk) 21:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I mean, they're all still the same game, at least including those mentioned on the sourced lists. Carlinal (talk) 21:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Popular Mechanics, 2022

Analyzed the Donkey Kong Country article when noticing an unnecessary footnote for lists calling it among the greatest. I then looked through the sources referenced and saw a Popular Mechanics list that likely hasn't been brought up here yet. How's this? Regardless, once it's dealt with, I'll be removing the footnote since this article is a reference in its own. Carlinal (talk) 19:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I believe this list is identical to their 2019 list, which is already included. IlmeniAVG (talk) 20:04, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Then if the 2019 and 2022 editions are identical, can they be merged akin to the USA Today 2022/Sports Illustrated 2023 lists? Carlinal (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Wealth of Geeks

New list just dropped. Would like the source evaluated https://wealthofgeeks.com/essential-video-games-everyone-needs-to-play/ Alena 33 (talk) 01:25, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for bringing this list to our attention. A quick Google search turns up only 3 citations of Wealth of Geeks across all of Wikipedia, and it is not listed at WP:VG/S. You should at least get it evaluated at the talk page there first. Phediuk (talk) 14:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

ScreenRant

https://screenrant.com/best-video-games-all-time-ranked/ This is another list that dropped recently, and I'm pretty sure the wikipedia folk have already evaluated this source, but not 100 percent sure. Alena 33 (talk) 19:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Definite no to Valnet churnalism sites. -- ferret (talk) 19:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:RS/P, Screen Rant is "considered reliable for entertainment-related topics, but should not be used for controversial statements related to living persons", and WP:VG/S says it "May be inappropriate to cite for controversial statements in BLP pages, but source is deemed reliable enough for other uses." A Google search indicates that the site is widely-cited across Wikipedia in entertainment-related articles. It should be fine as a source for this page, unless I am missing something here. Furthermore, the list is staff-chosen, explicitly about the best games, and unrestricted by platform/era/genre. If others are strongly opposed to this one, I will refrain from adding it, but otherwise, it looks good to go. Phediuk (talk) 22:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

My disdain for Valnet is well known :P I won't push anymore than this so. -- ferret (talk) 23:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

If this were a typical Valnet list (typically chosen by only one editor meeting their weekly quota) then I'd argue to exclude it, but this seems to be chosen by the entirety of the sites editorial staff. There are concerns related to Valnets contributions towards notability (typically, it's a no), but in this very specific case, it seems to be good enough in my opinion. I'd support allowing it here. λ NegativeMP1 23:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Here is a transcription of the list:

Screen Rant, 2024

1. Elden Ring 2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3. Minecraft 4. Red Dead Redemption 2 5. Final Fantasy VII 6. Stardew Valley 7. Fallout: New Vegas 8. Baldur’s Gate III 9. Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age 10. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 11. Metal Gear Solid 12. World of Warcraft 13. Super Mario Bros. 14. Super Mario World 15. Pokemon Red and Blue 16. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 17. Slay the Spire 18. Super Metroid 19. Tetris 20. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 21. Dark Souls 22. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe 23. Persona 5 Royal 24. Doom (1993) 25. League of Legends 26. The Last of Us 27. Bioshock 28. Resident Evil 4 (2005) 29. God of War (2018) 30. Goldeneye (1997) 31. Silent Hill 2 32. Street Fighter II 33. Halo 3 34. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 35. The Oregon Trail (1985)

I will wait a bit to see if there are any objections to this list; if not, I will incorporate it. Mario Kart 8, Persona 5, and Elden Ring will all receive entries on the main page. Phediuk (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Heh, why'd you title that Goldeneye (1997)? I get there's two games titled GoldenEye 007 but that's a little weird. Carlinal (talk) 18:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm kinda confused what you're asking... how is it weird that Phedium indicated which (among 3-4) Goldeneye games this was referring to? -- ferret (talk) 19:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

...Well there's GoldenEye and GoldenEye 007, and I'd be amazed if we find a viable list that prefers the remake over the original. Carlinal (talk) 19:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I'd say COMMONNAME wise, no one says "Goldeneye 007" normally. It's just Goldeneye -- ferret (talk) 19:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I list the game as "Goldeneye (1997)" because that is how it is already listed throughout the omnibus data. Phediuk (talk) 19:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, should this list be integrated, Fallout: New Vegas will need only one more entry before it gets added. Anonymouseditor2k19 (talk) 19:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

• While Screen Rant is normally a pretty weak source, per others, this does appear to be an attempt at a "legitimate" list and not a college student picking 35 games from a hat in something dashed off in 2 hours, so usable enough to be added IMO. SnowFire (talk) 20:07, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The Screen Rant list has now been incorporated; I have also added it to the omnibus data. I also abbreviated PlayStation 2/3/4/5 in the platforms column to PS2/3/4/5, since these names are commonly understood and widely used in their WP articles. Phediuk (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Really great that you simplified the titling for the PlayStation consoles. But just to make sure, has there been any recent conversation over a similar case with the original PlayStation as the primary redirect to "PS1"? Carlinal (talk) 19:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

The original PSX was usually abbreviated PSX, though. But this abbreviation isn't very intuitive to people not around in the era, so writing it out seems harmless enough. SnowFire (talk) 20:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense, thank you. Carlinal (talk) 21:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

List of Top 100 Games by Number of Referenced Sources Updated (See Lists Talk Page for Link). XJJSX (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Visualized data updated. BenSVE (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

More console abbreviations

So extending the abbreviation thing, should we do the same with the Nintendo 64 (N64) and Nintendo 3DS (3DS), or even the GameCube (GCN/NGC)? How about the Commodore 64 (C64) and Xbox One (XBO)? Carlinal (talk) 03:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

No need at this point; none of those platform names are currently stretching the platforms column. If they ever do, we can abbreviate them. Phediuk (talk) 04:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

English-language bias in sources

While this is somewhat understandable given the fact it is on English-language wikipedia and statistically speaking, most contributors here are unlikely to speak another language, but it seems like a major oversight to use a set of publications that doesn't include all the major markets. Going through the list, there isn't a single Japanese, South Korean, Brazilian, or Chinese publication on the list. All publications are either based in the US, Europe, or Australia, leading to a bias toward what was popular there.

There should be some attempt to compile a list of sources that reflect a better diversity with respect to countries/languages, or this article should be reworded and retitled to show that this is a list of games considered to be the best in the US/Europe/Australia.

PúcaCiúin (talk) 00:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

It's an issue beyond the scope of this list alone. The issue is that we have very few vetted sources that are non-English. The best thing you can do is make suggestions for non-English sources at WP:VG/S and help explain and show that they are indeed reliable. -- ferret (talk) 00:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

There is one Brazilian source, Super GamePower, which I had proposed to be added (as a Brazilian). But yes, I think that English-language bias is always present no matter what considering this is the English Wikipedia. It'd be extremely hard to counter this issue. Skyshiftertalk 00:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Mistake with the visualized omnibus data

I was looking at the visualized omnibus data and noticed that there were two separate entries for "Robotron: 2084" (with a colon) and "Robotron 2084" (without a colon). This seems to be a mistake, as there is only one Robotron: 2084, and their entries should be merged accordingly. IAmACowWhoIsMad (talk) 00:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. If there are any other errors please feel free to reach out on my talk page! BenSVE (talk) 16:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II.

Can Kingdom Hearts II be added to the list? LifelongLoser (talk) 14:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Once the game has six reputable sources then yes. XJJSX (talk) 14:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll add that five separate publications listed it, as shown in the omnibus list data (read the FAQ, btw). I wouldn't bet on how long for another list, however. Carlinal (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

The Last Of Us Part II

Please change / add The Last Of Us Part II (2020) Sources:

• GQ (68)
• IGN (54)
• Parade (50)
• The Times (51) [tied with The Last Of Us (2013)]
• USA Today (78) [tied with The Last Of Us (2013)]
• Sports Illustrated (79) [tied with The Last Of Us (2013)]

Brendan195 (talk) 01:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Five of six separate publications listed it. To make sure it gets listed, only one more unique publication needs to include the game in a subsequent list. It's been listed by GQ twice, but that doesn't count.

Speaking of which, @Phediuk do dual entries add a point for both games listed? And can you revise the mentions of these games, I see "Part II" and "Part 2" in the same document. Messes up some quick searching for me. The remake of Part I counts with the original version too, right? Carlinal (talk) 04:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The USA Today and Sports Illustrated count as the same source, as mentioned here-- https://docs.google.com/document/d/13jjQ5HPnd_mhmVeIqNpxVgasGXQlhLlztOfwCh3odxI/edit?usp=sharing 100.16.223.83 (talk) 06:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the question. Dual/"series" entries are not counted; The Last of Us Part II is currently at three sources. Currently, there are no listings for The Last of Us: Part I specifically, but it would be counted separately from the original, since it has it own WP article. Phediuk (talk) 14:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, I believe there is one entry for The Last of Us Part I, under GamingBolt 2023, correct? Or is that being excluded for some reason. BenSVE (talk) 00:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

It's there on both the omnibus data and spreadsheet. Carlinal (talk) 06:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, correct. My bad. Phediuk (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Bubble Bobble link incorrect

The link for the Bubble Bobble entry links to the entire Bubble Bobble series, rather than just the original game. Could someone change this? 74.96.253.5 (talk) 18:02, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Done. You're welcome! :) Carlinal (talk) 18:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Baldur's Gate 3

Hi, I have added Baldur's Gate 3 with 6 references (3 existing references and 3 new references). Daceyvillain (talk) 23:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

The three new references fail the criteria. Two of them focus on PC games and ports only, and the other is…WatchMojo? Seriously? It's been reverted all in all, my apologies. Carlinal (talk) 00:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I have edited the page to make it clear that only multi-platform lists are eligible. Daceyvillain (talk) 02:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

That was a great idea. Rhain did the usual copyediting but I'm surprised no one thought about adding the inclusiveness detail. Your last edit has been much appreciated, thank you. :) Carlinal (talk) 03:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Should Half-life Alyx be included?

Sure it’s not a video game in the traditional sence, since it was published on Steam for the Valve index as a virtual reality exclusive.

But i’m sure that because of the fact that most sources list it as the best (vr) game on the list.

I’ve noticed that in the article, there are no vr games (aside from Elder scrolls V: Skyrim, which had a vr port), so if any game should be here that is the best and only on vr, it should be half-life Alyx. Led lore (talk) 16:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

It being VR doesn’t exclude it from the article, it’s still a video game like any other here. That being said, it only has 2 sources right now so it will need four more from lists claiming it the best before it can be included (reference the front of the article page and the learn more section if you want to know more). XJJSX (talk) 18:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2024

The link to Daytona USA is outdated, as it links to the page before it got moved. Could someone please update the link? 2600:1006:B014:2EC0:81EC:4E7:1DE1:771C (talk) 18:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Harmless enough, so done, but for future reference, see WP:NOTBROKEN. Linking to a redirect is okay and perfectly fine, so I don't recommend a policy of going around and making such changes. SnowFire (talk) 18:17, 2 June 2024 (UTC)