Talk:Balloon help

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Balloon help article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Computing: Software Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Computing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of computers, computing, and information technology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComputingWikipedia:WikiProject ComputingTemplate:WikiProject ComputingComputing articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Software (assessed as Mid-importance).

Apple Inc. Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Apple Inc., a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Apple, Mac, iOS and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Apple Inc.Wikipedia:WikiProject Apple Inc.Template:WikiProject Apple Inc.Apple Inc. articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Failed Apple Initiative?[edit]

Does this really deserve to be categorized as part of Failed Apple initiatives? It seems the category is made for things that really failed to take off, while Balloon Help took off and was quite pervasive in pre-OSX Mac OS. Sure, they stopped using it in OS X, in favor of Tool Tips, which were more widely used (ie, on Windows, on the Web, etc). But that doesn't mean it was a failed initiative! It was quite succesful and widely adopted by Mac application makes. It's like saying the Clamshell iBook was a failed initiative because Apple doesn't make them anymore. I don't think it make sense... Myrdred 01:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it depends on your definition of "failed" -- I certainly consider it to have failed. It was widely derided, both by the press and the users, as it was slow enough on machines when it was introduced that you couldn't really use it. Furthermore, few applications really made use of it, leaving the user with balloons for things they already understood, and none for the things they were actually trying to figure out. Finally there was no easy way, like the Help key, to easily toggle it on and off. As I said in the article, it was a flawed execution of a very good idea, one that Apple could have, and should have, fixed, but never did. People ended up not using it, developers never really put it in, and even Claris execs made fun of it. That's certainly "failed" in my books. Maury 22:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Myrdred. It had its flaws, but compare it to the other things in the category. Macintosh TV, Copland, Apple III, QuickDraw 3D/GX, Taligent... it really doesn't belong with these. It's in the final release of Mac OS Classic, and can thus still be seen on PowerPC-based Macintoshes. That's 16 years now and counting. I've also rarely seen a Mac OS Classic application that didn't support balloon help, at least in the menu bar. --Steven Fisher 21:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well let me answer that with another question: these applications, did they not just support Apple's built-in balloons? If that is the case, then it is quite reasonable to claim that the application did not support it, as the developers in question didn't actually do anything. It's like when you find the "default application icon" on a program...

But my real point here is about the claims vs the reality. Did Balloon Help deliver what Apple claimed it would when they introduced it. The answer is an unqualified "no". Maury 12:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And, as the article points out, Apple did nothing at all to improve Balloon Help after the initial complaints pointing out its obvious and easily remedied flaws. Seems like Apple thought it had failed. ProhibitOnions 12:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When I said they added balloon help to their menu bars I meant exactly what I said. It is not Apple content, but the application's. I only have a few Classic applications left on my hard drive, but most of the non-Apple ones have balloon help (the only one that didn't in my quick sampling was the QuickHelp compiler). It was simply so easy to add that most developers did add it. --Steven Fisher 14:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those things in XP[edit]

We should also have an article about those notification balloons in XP and Gnome that appear near the system tray/notification area, used because they are better than modal dialogs. — Omegatron 15:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

These are apparently called "balloon tips" in XP. [1] — Omegatron 15:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The official Apple name[edit]

I worked on adding these to an app back in the day, and I seem to remember that the official Apple name was "Balloon Help online assistance"; note that Help is in caps and the word online asssistance is part of the name. And on XP or any other system, it would not be called Balloon Help, in the same sense that Canon doesn't sell Xerox machines.

Unfortunately, I think about 90% of links talking about this are dead, and the rest are Seinfeld-esqe jokes along the lines of "Hey, remember balloon help?"

And for the record, I actually liked balloon help, and I'm not sure why everyone hated it. To add my own original research to the pot, I'd say it had something to do with the Mac getting absolutely hammered with criticism and spite in the mid-nineties, some of if deserved, most of it being the "wow my Windows 95 machine is cooler than your Mac" sort of thing. Jkonrath 14:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This might help you: [2] --Steven Fisher 17:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I still have a MacOS 7.6.1 machine (old MacBook 5400), and think the OS has much to teach current students of interface design. Simple, elegant, aimed at helping the user (usability, consistent interface). Balloon Help IMHO was a successful feature, pre-dating and superior (from user's POV) to Microsoft's Office Assistant ("Clippy") AI. Balloon Help was a simple, quick way to get in-context help and explanation of the OS. Only flaw to me was that it wasn't implemented more thoroughly throughout the OS, and applications. My 2¢. -- David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 00:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Likely[edit]

I find that the use of "likely" as an adverb, as in "likely historical", detracts from legibility. Moreover, I don't understand the phrase "likely historical in nature" at all. D021317c (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:VistaNotificationBalloon.png[edit]

The image Image:VistaNotificationBalloon.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --06:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GNOME?[edit]

"Balloon help is also highly visible in GNOME"

I've been using and developing for GNOME since 1.0 and I've never heard of such a thing. The first google hit is a document explaining GNOME "Notification Balloons" (not help balloons), and the second hit is this wikipedia article. If GNOME does have balloon help, what does GNOME call it, and where's the "Show Balloons" command?

If this simply refers to tooltips, then let's move it to the Tooltips page where it belongs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.163.72.2 (talk) 16:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'What's this' popups[edit]

Should not this page not cover What's this? popups as well - the equivalent in windows for Balloon help that is triggered by first entering What's this mode and then clicking on the object one wants information on? See for example http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2002-November/msg00201.html Pilpi (talk) 09:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are individual articles for "Tooltips" and other interface implementations of the idea. This article addresses the System 7 implementation, not the general idea. IMHO. -- David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 00:29, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File:System 7 Balloon Help in Eudora.png Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

An image used in this article, File:System 7 Balloon Help in Eudora.png, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 5 June 2012

What should I do?

Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale
If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review

To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:System 7 Balloon Help in Eudora.png)

This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 13:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Broken link[edit]

In sub section "Legacy" the link http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511451.aspx is broken ("We're sorry, the page you requested cannot be found.").

--Mortense (talk) 20:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Microsoft bought the patent?[edit]

Article contains this: Incidentally, Microsoft was able to add their own embodiment of Balloon help by acquiring the original patent among many purchased from Apple Computer in the early 1990s. I'm not aware of any such purchase, only a cross-use agreement in the late 90s. I'm skeptical this ever happened. Anyone have any details? Steven Fisher (talk) 21:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]