Talk:AFI (band)/Archive 2

What happened to the Mark Stopholese article??

Why does Mark Stopholese redirect here? He had an article not that long ago. It wasn't the longest article, but I've seen much, much shorter. It had a decent amount of info on the guy and what he's done since leaving the band. Info on him is pretty scarce in the first place, why delete the article?

If Vic Chalker can have his own wikipedia article, so should Mark.

Or is this just another instance of mindless AFI fans thinking it's "not appropriate to talk about Mark"? 64.53.37.3 (talk) 02:20, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, Markus is the best guitarist AFI had and will ever have, I mean Jade is pretty good...but he's no MARKUS STOPHOLESE! Why did he leave? really?...I don't care how "sacred" it is to talk about him and all of that, but come on, it's way more than what they said that it was, because listen to the song "Lower It"! he did something to PISS them off...and I want to know what! please.

Genre

General

CLEANUP-We need to get "Misconception" In the first few lines SPELLED CORRECTLY.DD54 08:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)DD54

AFI is KINDA screamo. a lot of songs involve screaming XstraightXedgeX

Nope,only heard em scream in one song,miss murder,that doesnt even make them KINDA screamo,that makes them a band that screamed once in their song.4.235.190.44 (talk) 00:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't honestly know, since I have yet to listen to them, but isn't AFI more of a screamo band? I just asked a friend to list a bunch of screamo bands, and AFI was one of his favorite in his list. 72.241.165.155 04:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

We're on the brink of edit wars here with respect to genre, so let's get all the arguing out of the way here. We've had various edits and reverts labelling AFI as punk, punk rock, hardcore, hardcore punk. I think there's definite reason to mention a gothic influence encompassing all hallows to the art of drowning, too. -- Jon Dowland 08:27, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

There ya' go! Gothic music is practically defined by horror imagery and themes (though I don't mean to downplay it's other attributes and structural differences from punk). AFI has DEFINATELY had horror themes and imagery as a mainstay since All Hallows (at least). You simply can't deny the influence. - Enzo Dragon 10:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Gothic Rock/Death Rock spawned from the Punk scene. AFI are really neither though. JanderVK

To whoever wrote the new genre sentence: Good save. Afee 22:01, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Yep, definately can't be labelled as hardcore, maybe gothic/punk? Musically wise they seem to have a punkish sound, but lyrically definately goth 222.154.66.70 07:08, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

AFI started as a hardcore punk band, and those roots echo in their music right up to Decemberunderground (best example is Kill Caustic). AFI themselves have confirmed this. Therefor, the hardcore label stays. - Enzo Dragon 17:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the genres listed now are OK. Though people need to stop adding emo. Dwnsjane2

They started as punk/harcore, then expanded their sound, most notably incorporating elements of gothic rock. I have no idea where the emo tag comes from; in fact i've never heard anyoe outside of Wikipedia call them emo. The current genre terms (alternative, punk, hardcore) are fine by me. WesleyDodds 01:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Though AFI seem to have dropped the horror imagery for the most part, they've turned around and picked up some cyber-goth tricks. Best example is 37mm. - Enzo Dragon 13:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think goth/punk is fine I guess.-Leandreamo

Whoever wrote the new label is wrong. AFI isn't emo. Their myspace (yes I'm a myspacer) labels them as rock/rock/rock. I think they should be labeled as rock or gothic rock, because they definitely aren't emo. No offense to emos, but labeling AFI as emo is an insult to AFI.

The term "emo" is PURELY a market-based term now, anyway. AFI is listed under their label as punk/alternative rock. Their myspace claims they are rock. MTV (though I hate to cite them) refers to them as punk rock. The only people claiming they are emo are misinformed, worthless magazines that have little or no understanding of what the tag "emo" refers to. Enzo Dragon 10:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Except they are not gothic rock.

afi f?@#ing s?#t —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.161.169 (talk) 05:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC) Havok is influenced by some Gothic rock groups, but that doesn't make AFI themselves part of that genre, Alternative will do. - Deathrocker 01:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I re-added the meniton of emo elements on some tracks, with a citation to People magazine. Fullquote: "AFI (which stands for A Fire Inside) also incorporates elements of emo on cuts like "Summer Shudder," showing they are a band for all seasons." Please do not delete cited material. -- JHunterJ 11:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

One of the reasons your addition continues to be removed is that it is presented as fact. Perhaps if you were to present it as quoted opinion, not as many people would remove it. - Enzo Dragon 22:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It is presented as fact in the cited article. (Please use ~~~~ to sign your talk page comments.) -- JHunterJ 11:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Yet, the article you are citing is, itself, a collection of the writer's opinions on AFI, not neccessarily facts. Such writing style is fine for magazines like "People", but Wikipedia is not a magazine. It is an encyclopedia, and so the content is expected to be fact, and not just some person's opinion. If you're going to make claims that AFI incorporates elements of "emo" and treat it as fact in an encyclopedia article, you'd better have a citation better than a magazine based around opinion. I think for such an accusation to be made and treated as fact, you'd need to be able to cite the band itself. - Enzo Dragon 12:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC) Stop signing my posts for me, kid.

Classifying music into genres is inherently a matter of opinion anyway, since the classifications are just agreements between listeners. "AFI is rock" is opinion, at its core. If you're going to deny the cited claim, the burden is on you to find a "better" citation. (Citing the band itself is still citing an opinion: the band members' opinion.) -- JHunterJ 11:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha. "Better citation". Who's opinion does "better" need to agree with? Still, I think although genre is somewhat based upon opinion, there is a largely technical side to defining musical genre. - Enzo Dragon 10:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, let's start with "any" citation. I only put "better" in quotes because you appear to disdain the People magazine cite. Or cite the technical definition of emo that the tracks can be objectively compared to. -- JHunterJ

I'll get right on that, then. - Enzo Dragon 13:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I can't delete because the emo note because it is sourced. As long as that mention doesn't justifly the genre being changed to emo or emo being added as a genre. Because obviously the term emo should only be applied to the emotional hardcore bands (Rites Of Spring, Moss Icon etc.) and the post-/indie emo that were influnced by them (Sunny Day Real Estate, Get Up Kids etc.). Dwnsjane2 23:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm also hopeful that having a note that some songs have emo elements will help ward off editors who would otherwise add it as a genre. -- JHunterJ 23:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I will only be okay with an emo label if the band members themselves would confirm it. Otherwise they're alternative rock. There's a dozen labels that could be attributed to this band, since their music is somewhat unique in comparison to other bands of the same "alternative" genre. Remember, because they have a song called "Endlessly, She Said" doesn't qualify an Emo label. Remember, Evanescence got the Christian label with their song "Tourniquet" because of the lyrics. So in the mean time, I think it would be best to keep the genre as Rock or Alternative. And I agree, it may be okay to add that some songs have emo elements, in addition to gothic and punk. --Prezboy1 16:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Why should AFI be classified as gothic. The only reason one would classify them as that genre, if can even call it a genre, is because of the way they, or should I say the way Davey looks.--Ahlymel 01:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Though I wouldn't go as far as to say that AFI is "gothic rock", they have noted bands of both the post-punk and gothic persuation as influences, and every album since Shut Your Mouth has had a tint of trad goth in it, whether it be in the sound or imagery they use in their songs. Enzo Dragon 10:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

AFI shouldn't be classified as gothic. I was just pointing out that while some elements of different songs have been called "emo", there are just as many songs that could be classified as having gothic undertones. As I said before, AFI is either Alternative or Punk... and until the band members classify their genre as something else then I believe it is okay to change it. --Prezboy1 20:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

You will find that Emo is to represent the amount of emotion in the lyrics. AFI meets the criteria.

There's a lot of emotion in a lot of different bands lyrics, doesn't make them "Emo". Give me a break. As for Gothic Rock, yes Davey has been influenced by a few trad Goth bands, but doesn't make the band Gothic Rock at all. Their latest release has Rhonan Harris (SP?) of VNV Nation doing samples, but that doesn't make them FuturePop. I see more elements of Industrial/EBM (in their latest stuff) than Gothic Rock in any of their stuff. JanderVK

Totally agreed. AFI has been leaning into Industrial since Sing the Sorrow, and it's stronger on Decemberunderground, though I wouldn't list it as a genre as of right now. Enzo Dragon 21:55, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say A Fire Inside was/is/has been an emocore (REAL emocore, not the MTVfriendly pop rock bands that whore themselves as being emo), punk, gothic hardcore and alternative band. First 2 albums are definitely emocore/emocore-influenced punk. The next 3 are more gothic-influenced punk/alternative/rock. Sing the Sorrow a Gothic Hardcore/Alternative album. And finally DecemberUnderground a Modern Rock/Alternative Pop/Gothic album.

Gothic Embrace 22:15 (GMT +1) 27th October 2006

A Fire Inside is definitely NOT Hardcore Punk present day. So I edited it a bit.

Gothic Embrace 21:27 (GMT +1) 29th October 2006

The state of the term "Emo" is a joke. Bands acredited to supposedly have started Emotive (Fugazi, Rites of Spring) have at one time or another openly admitted that they had done nothing but write punk rock, and often wonder why they had been put under a new genre.

At any rate, until you started abusing the edit feature, the genre section had genrely settled. It is in wide concurance that AFI is now Alternative Rock, and AFI themselves only state Rock as their genre (take a look at their myspace). The song Kill Caustic, and, to a lesser extent, Affliction, are both "Hardcore Punk" songs. Davey has stated this (read pre-release interviews), and the music itself reflects the stylings of hardcore punk music.

I strongly suggest you refrain from kicking this silly little edit-war farther - the changes will continue to be reverted by everyone else. Enzo Dragon 21:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Haha. Whatever. Calling those songs hardcore punk is wrong and misleading. But alright. I've already heard of the band, so I won't be checking into wikipedia to find info about it. And I am aware of the bands starting the emocore scene opposes the tag "emo". They are still considered the founders of the genré. Gothic Embrace 14:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

They are not hardcore punk songs. However Hardcore Punk Should remain in the infobox because the band has played hardcore punk and still has some hardcore influences in even their more recent work. Though little, they have not completly abandoned the genre.

And they started the emocore scene? Read the article on emo.Dwnsjane2 00:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa I have no idea how they could be labeled "hardcore punk". Is it because he screams every so often and they use a faster beat in some songs? Labeling them as such is an insult to Black Flag, Bad Brains, Gorilla Biscuits and the like. "Hardcore" and "Hardcore Punk" is much more than just a different way to play your instruments or sing.

No it is not. Their first few albums were hardcore punk. Dwnsjane2 23:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

"Their _first_ few albums were hardcore punk". Which again means: labelling them as a present hardcore act is incorrect. Look at the Black Flag article, it doesn't say that they're a hardcore punk band, now does it? And besides: their first albums sounded way more old skool emocore than hardcore. Gothic Embrace 14:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, their first few albums were hardcore punk. The hardcore influence however is still somewhat present. Therefore it should remain in the infobox. Dwnsjane2 02:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

They are gothic and horror punk influenced... should "gothic rock" or "horror punk" be added to the genrélist? Gothic Embrace 11:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

"Whoa whoa whoa I have no idea how they could be labeled 'hardcore punk'. Is it because he screams every so often and they use a faster beat in some songs? Labeling them as such is an insult to Black Flag, Bad Brains, Gorilla Biscuits and the like. "Hardcore" and "Hardcore Punk" is much more than just a different way to play your instruments or sing." Obviously, this person has never heard past albums.

They have changed their genre throughout their career. right now it is emo, and in the past it has been all of the above mentioned genres. →(unsigned)

I swear, Davey gets a hair cut and all of the sudden they are tagged as "emo", which I completely don't understand since ALL music is emotional →(unsigned)

I don't know who put "Cold wave" in the genre section, but I think it should be removed because right now, it links to a weather page. Lizzysama 21:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

AFI have certainly been a hardcore punk band since they formed, and the hardcore sound is evident right up to DU. But i think that some songs on "The Art of Drowning" and much of "Sing the Sorrow" would be best classified as melodic hardcore. Listen to Dancing through SUnday.

Ok, this is my take on things, and take it from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. AFI started out as a hardcore punk revival band. With All Hallows and The Art of Drowning they were still punk, but they were now starting to lean towards emo with gothic influence. With Sing the Sorrow, the completely became an emo band. The lyrics reflect emo lyrics and their musical style blends melodic vocals with screaming, as emo is apt to do sometimes. Granted there is significant hardcore influence, most notably in the speed of the songs, but it is still emo. With DU, they became even further emo, incorporating elements of New Wave in to their music. That is simply what they are. I have changed some of the article at the beginning to reflect this, but I haven't touched most of the latter portions of the article. I am a fan of AFI, and use the term emo as a completely objective term, not the derogative term it has become in recent years. Emo is simply what they are. Sing the Sorrow is easily one of my favorite albums of all time (though DU is one of my least favorite). →(unsigned)

^emo as a term is a load of bullshit. sorry, it just has to be said. you just can't use emo as a description, it's a derogatory term to describe certain genres of rock which its detractors don't like and to describe the people that like it. if you're referring to the original emotional hardcore, call it emotional hardcore and P!ATD/AFI/Paramore/Aiden style emo isn't real emo anyway. i hate all this stuff with genres anyway, afi were right to put "rock/rock/rock" down on their myspace profile, afi's music is unclassifiable, you may as well list "Various incarnations of AFI style punk depending on where davey, jade, adam and hunter want to take their music" as its genre. --Gpmuscillo 22:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Their genre has become a mix of elements from hardcore punk and alternaive rock.They are NOT emo.Xr 1 20:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hm-hm! I think it's so cute to see you guys argue like this. AFI has no genre. Davey has said this many times before. I don't recall them ever saying they were emo, emocore, punk, hardcore punk, or alternative. I really think that we should just classify them as rock or, at the very least, punk/alternative rock. Honestly, AFI fans should remember all the insances in which not just Davey, but even the others, have stated that they do not belive in classifing their music in a genre. They really do not want a label. So don't give them one. They have NO GENRE. Sorry if I sounded at all like a bitch at any time during my rant. I just really like AFI. Floramage! 17:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

AFI Has specifically stated that their music is not emo. They said if you had to give it a genre, give it rock. AFI's new music from Decemberunderground can be comparable to stuff from Depeche Mode, NIN, The Smiths, U2, none of these bands are emo. Therefore Rock fits the best genre. Plus EMO Music needs the music style and the lyrics, though AFI's lyrics are darker than normal, they are certainly not very emo. 142.161.32.96 17:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)Corey

OK.The Genre paragraph I create was non encyclopedic and unsourced.But I've read all the discussions here and in other places and wrote what people think.And I think there should be 'Genre' section about their genre in the article because their music is complex and is mix of many styles.I think in the article should be mention that.:) Also I know people who think AFI have never been hardcore punk or punk. Xr 1 13:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Emo?

AFI IS EMO GET OVER IT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.247.178 (talk) 18:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

They are emo, their lyrics don't have to be emo for the band to be emo, the people in it are emo, which makes the whole band emo, they are emo. full stop. end of story. goodnight.

Not to be opinionated, but I really don't think AFI is EMO either. They are just ROCK. (1/14/07)

What the hell how come it says that AFI is a emo band???? And it even says that in the beginning they formed an Emo band??? Now i dont know that much about AFI but i know that they are not emo and never were. Any body with the Danzig haircut is deffinetly punk and not emo. Im not going to change it but some one please do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Keioffice (talk • contribs) 09:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

What about Aiden? They're not punk, and the singer of Lamb Of God had one, not punk either. --Diabolical 19:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. Ollie 16:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll agree that whoever said they started as emo knew not what they were talking about. But everything from Sing the Sorrow-present is emo.

I don't think sing the sorrow is emo, it's darker than the other albums, but not emo. Decemberunderground is definitely emo. --Dexter prog 22:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This argument is stupid. Modern day "emo" is such a broad tern that it ceases to exist. The term emo should remain used exclusively for bands that actually fit the only definite definition of the genre. Dwnsjane2 04:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Such as AFI. "Correctly or not, emo has often been used to describe such bands as AFI, Alexisonfire, Brand New, Bright Eyes, Coheed and Cambria, Death Cab for Cutie, Fall Out Boy, From First to Last, Funeral for a Friend, Hawthorne Heights, My Chemical Romance, Panic! at the Disco, Senses Fail, Something Corporate, The Starting Line, Story of the Year, Taking Back Sunday, Thursday, The Used, and Underoath.[8] The classification of bands as "emo" is often controversial. Fans of several of the listed bands have recoiled at the use of the "emo" tag, and have gone to great lengths to explain why they don't qualify as "emo". In many cases, the term has simply been attached to them because of musical similarites, a common fashion sense, or because of the band's popularity within the "emo" scene, not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre. (The revulsion of some bands from the term emo is not unlike the retreat from the genre by the bands in the indie emo scene near the end of the 90s.)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emocore#The_third_wave_.282000-present.29

Emo= Emotional Harcore. AFI has almost lost all of its hardcore roots and gone more emotionall and close to pop (even Davey stated decemberunderground has a "cold pop" sound), so Emcore suits them perfectly.

--Dexter prog 04:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Emocore is Emotional Hardcore, both are shortened to Emo, therefore it is not more suitable it's the same thing anyway AFI are not Emo, no matter which order the words are. Diabolical 01:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Show sources or something to back up you opinion, afi fits perfectly the "emocore" genre. --Dexter prog 01:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[1] note it says "But AFI..." I would advise you to read the Emo entry. AFI's lyrics are not emotional either. --Diabolical 19:05, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

So "love like winter", "miss murder" and the rest of "decemberunderground" are not emotional lyrics?, come on... --Dexter prog 19:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

If "emotional lyrics" are the sole qualifier of the genre, than IRON MAIDEN are "emo". Think about that. - Enzo Dragon 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

What's the lyrics to Miss Murder got in common with lyrics by other Emo bands? Absolutely nothing. Even if they are the most emotional lyrics ever that still doesn't make them Emo/Emocore/Emotional Hardcore. Even Death Metal bands like Death are emotional. I still recommend you read the Emo wikipedia entry. Diabolical 22:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Having "emotional" lyrics doesn't mean a band plays emocore. I suggest you leave genres to more experienced exitors Dexter, you seem to be adding incorrect genres to numerous articles. - Deathrocker 17:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

--Migospia 8:30, 12 Febuary 2007 (Central) - AFI's Decemberunderground is very emo there other stuff is not you should add the emo music category because then you are just denying this. You can keep the others because they were punk rock and hardcore punk an alternative there new stuff is NOT

I beg to differ. Although their music and lyrics sound emotional, I highly doubt that the band would agree with you on labeling them as "emo". They have already stated that they are ROCK, not EMO. Really, listen or read one of their interviews and you'll see that they have never stated that they were emo, only rock. Besides, what does it matter when the band members are both sexy AND talented? Floramage! 16:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

most definitely not emo. yeah, sure, even though more often then not emo is deregatory, it kind of is if you call AFI emo. they do mention suicide and dark, macabre details but don't make droning ballads about lost love and ending life. isn't it enough that they were insulted when they were told that they were considered so, and denied it? LollyLo 04:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Stop kidding yourself they are the definition of emo

They have NEVER been Emo.They have never been true emo, they have NEVER been MTV Poseous Emo.They have no connection with Emo! They are punk/alternative band.Although they often are said to be emo...

--Regardless of whether or not they're "true" emo, I think AFI can be described emo pretty accurately. "Emotional hardcore". That pretty much sums up AFI's sound. And their newer material pretty much has all the basic characteristics of what emo sounds like. Now I realize that emo is a pretty broad, widely applicable nowadays, but I think there are certain things that most people can agree sound emo. The thing is, since emo has a negative affiliation for a lot of people, people often attempt to dissociate whatever music they listen to from that label. I think it would be best if people could just accept that maybe they like an emo band, so what, get over it. I like Silverstein, and I consider them to be emo. (Oddly enough I'm commenting on this and I don't even like AFI). Anyways, my point is AFI are emo, get over it, it's just a label. Razorhead March 27 2007

they are not emo keep it as alt rock and hardcore punk

no man, they are most definitely emo... who said the danzig haircut? that was from when he was in the Misfits, to my understanding that was emo as anything. Gothic? Please, they aren't gothic, and are far from hardcore punk. Alt rock is the closest thing next to emo(which is the right one). Lyrics:emo. Video(MIss Murder anyone?): Emo. Appearance(Devillocke): Emo

A haircut can't make a band emo.And it's not called devilock.Davey had a devilock years ago.Devilock hairstyle has no relation with the emo hairstyle. They're not gothic rock of course, but have gothic influences in their music and horror elements in some of their lyrics. The first albums are hardcore punk!88.87.6.72

Someone asked on Talk:Emo (music) for references to support AFI's designation as emo. I figured I'd post them here, too. Here ya go: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] Chubbles 16:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Only the song "The Last Kiss" have typical emo lyrics.However it sounds punk.So they're not Emo!Xr 1

ok, they are emo... as for the devil locke(the danzig haircut) his is a different style - he turned it emo!! Danzig was never emo, the Misfits(while he was with them) was Horropunk, a genre they pretty well created. Look at him now: Goth/Metal. He would eat AFI if they didnt reak of emo. Look at them, look at their videos, listen to songs... thye are emo. If they are truely emo they should admit it, if not they should stop using it as a marketing ploy to attract more business and record sales. His haircuts not the devil locke its the "i wann get bum fucked by satan" - locke. Seriously? They arent goth, maybe alt rock, maybe even punk(if they are lucky), but they aren't goth, they arent hardcore, and they arent any form of metal(unless sucktacular is now a genre)...so that can only leave one genre really for them to fit into....EMO!!!!

emo music has nothing to do with what they look like and just cause you dont like them doesn't make them emo and afi are a mix of loads of forms of rock and punk so i would call them alternative rock.

Enzo Dragon: you don't need an official magazine to label a band a certain genre for it to be "official". Their new material sounds emo, so people call it emo. Of course theres probably emo elitists that will disagree. Their old stuff was hardcore punk, their new stuff is crap, what ever it is.XXMurderSoulXx 02:16, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Last post is as stupid I won't even answer to it. About the genre, They used to be a punk band, later they became a melodic hardcore band, then rock/punk rock in Sing the Sorrow and sort of synth-pop, rock and sometimes punk rock style (depending on the song). They're look is and has always been GOTHIC, G-O-T-H-I-C. And if you can't distiguish gothic and emo you don't even have the right to judge if their music is crap or not, because you probably can't distiguish good music from bad music either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adthey (talk • contribs) 10:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Gothic? Horrorpunk? Deathrock?

Just speaking as an old fart who was around during the real punk days of the 1970s... AFI ain't punk rock. In fact, they make pretty mainstream arena rock, notwithstanding the vocalist's unorthodox skater-dyke fashion sense. She sounds a lot like Cher who made some arena-rock records in the 1970s. --TimothyHorrigan

 um...sorry, Tim, but Davey's a guy...  24.175.197.59 (talk) 19:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)CB

omg... talk about COMPLETELY WRONG LABELS!!!!!!!!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.238.126.206 (talk) 04:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

Well here is one example - read the lyrics of The Days Of The phoenix and then say if there isn't horror elements.

Yeah because writing one song with 'horror' lyrics makes a band that genre... Diabolical 01:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you probably shouldn't have started a new "topic" about this, but that's beside the point...

AFI is not Death Rock. "Deathrock" is NOT simply "between punk and goth". Deathrock describes a certain brand of goth rock, more specifically goth rock from the second wave (in retrospect). It's simply incorrect to say that AFI is a deathrock band - they are neither of the sound or of the era! - Enzo Dragon 09:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Gothic is a pretty broad term. I mean both The Birthday Party and The Cure are called Gothic; It seems the term is really based more around the look than anything else. And to be honest AFI's image has become more and more gothic recently (and I mean 80's style gothic, not the style which incoporates romantic style dress).

AFI are not, nor have they ever been a deathrock band. A strong arguement for horror punk could be made for Son Of Sam (band); Havok's sideproject, but that isn't AFI. The closest AFI came to horror punk (not deathrock) is the All Hallows EP, but that is not even a full length so it is not a defining genre for this band. - Daddy Kindsoul 00:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed the goth punk genre listing. There was no link to the goth punk page, but when typed in search it goes to goth rock which AFI is not. On http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/store/artist/album/0,,3630337,00.html I only see them say they use gothic aesthetics (which, from a gothic rock sense, they are far off.) and that they are "evolving goth-punk heroes", whatever that POV nonsense is meant to mean. The next source, http://media.www.bcheights.com/media/storage/paper144/news/2003/03/17/ArtsReview/Afi-Returns.With.GothTinged.Punk.Rock-393731.shtml, has the headline "AFI returns with goth-tinged punk rock". The key word here is tinged. The genre box is for precise classifications, not fringe influences. If anything, this link confirms they are not gothic rock. How? "The gentler beats are replaced by fierce enthusiasm and hardcore-like screams. "Death of season," with its somber beginning exploding into yelling and heavy bass is more attractive for the protestors of the newer AFI sound. Industrial-like techno bass beats in the beginning make the song even more edgy. By far the best track is "This Celluloid Dream." The chorus is insanely addictive and the duality of the bands' style is best seen here." This does not describe a gothic rock band, feel free to go to the article and read up. Yelling, "addictive chorus'", and "industrial techno beats" sounds like, hmm? Industrial to me. Maybe gothic metal. Just know it is not gothic rock. Also, it is poor etiquette to use a source that requires you to have an account or log in.

Who says they're goth rock??I say they are gothic influenced punk (goth punk),There's no article but AFI's sound is described in that way.And I don't know way goth punk redirects to goth rock.

Look also here - [8]Xr 1 08:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems as if they are just using that as a description, not a serious genre classification. "Influence" is not a strong enough word to classify a genre, and it seems that this "goth punk" phrase really does not exist. Further more, your source that you have listed is not supporting in any way for a serious genre classification. I believe I already pointed that out in my previous statement. A "goth punk" page does not even exist, and all the articles you post use them as mere adjectives if anything else. All the articles also describe something else entirely, such as right here:

"The band regroups with producer Finn (but not Vig), and all the pop hooks and black-cloud guitars are there, along with a new electronic-industrial edge."

Also here:

"AFI for most of their early career were associated with these groups but remained a step harder than their pop-punk contemporaries."

Ooo, here:"

Pop choruses blasted out of nearly every song, guitars ricocheted in and out of verses in a dozen different voices and whispers built to screams built to full-band war cries"

In the article, yes they mention they sing about "songs with drinking blood," "halloween" and "pancake makeup," but if so than AFI can probably be about as goth-influenced as Danny Elfman's "This is Halloween"? The article seems to describe more of a pop punk band; they seem to describe a band breaking further and further away from a a "punk" sound, let alone any "goth" sound. I think the listing you are looking for is the horror punk page, because a part from an adjective the "goth punk" phrase seems rather original for any serious genre listing. Furthermore, these articles refer to them more as "influences" rather than serious musical stylings (and I can understand why, the band reinvents its image often.) So, even though I doubt they would even be "horror punk," I think that is the listing you are looking for and I can not say I know much about what "horror punk" is.

"A radical break from the fifteen-year-old California goth-punk band's previous five albums, Sorrow was AFI's major-label debut." " Some call it goth-core, which AFI have encouraged by embracing Halloween, pancake makeup and lyrics about drinking blood." I think that's enough. I'd say that Goth Punk describes their music.As I said-it may not exist,have page here in wikipedia or whatever but describes their music pretty good. Secondly - Decemberunderground is more popish than their previous works.The citates you gave describe the album, not the band and its music at all. But I'll leave Horror Punk, although it's not mention anywhere in the rollingstone review and you can't use the review as a source for horror punk.Why I'll leave horror punk- well deathrock and horror punk are the closer genres to the definiton goth punk. Xr 1 17:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Ha, thanks! That is the point I was trying to make all along, that these sources you can't use really for anything. Just because a review makes up a term in the middle of it does not really say anything. And it is just for an album. Tell me if you can find this "goth punk" term somewhere else besides on this one album review, and I thought horror punk was as close as you were trying to get to (even though I do not think it is a good source for anything.) Also, I would not call it Death Rock either. When I can listen to Specimen and AFI and be convinced that they are both the same genre, than maybe, but I do know Deathrock which is very closely associated with Gothic rock. However, I do not listen to much of Horror punk at all so if anyone who has a legitimate reason to oppose it and can explain it than please make your point here.

[9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] Is that enough?Goth Punk is the best way to describe them as I said.

AFI also are influenced by the horror punk band Misfits and made some horror punk through their career.And as I said horror punk and deathrock are close to the definition goth punk.But goth punk is better about them.Xr 1

What IS goth punk? All these sources say is "they sing about this and that." But that seems to be what horror punk is, playing punk music with "horror" themed vocals. You seem to think it is better just because that is the term some of these articles are using to describe them. Look at "why" they are calling them what they call them. They use it as a passing description once or twice when they use it. Look at the long island article, he says "my music tastes are most described as goth punk". HIS music tastes are best described with HIS words, and he uses those words to describe it. These articles talk about how they are "drawing on the edge" or "closer to" this or that but that is like saying Elvis was on the edge of blues and country and all of the other musical styles he was "on the edge of". But his genre at heart was rockabilly.

The reason I am asking is because if this is a genre that should be taken seriously, despite never seeing it used as an actual genre, than what would be on the new goth punk article? Does any other band on wikipedia use it? What is its history, its influences? Has anyone written a book on it? Because if horror punk come closes to this article, than why bother to create the goth punk article. Again, I do not see goth punk being used except for "goth punk heroes" and "the goth punk band AFI!"

Goth Punk is just a description about their genre.There's no such thing but still AFI are said to be that.Maybe goth punk should be written like that- "Goth Punk" because it's not a genre but AFI are described in many places with this. But I'll just leave Horror Punk because it also describes pretty good their dark lyrics,attitude and sound.And maybe people were trying to express horror punk with that goth thing... Xr 1 08:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I as I said a description. If you can find a place in the article for it, that would be great! However, where you were trying to put it is for concise and defineable genres.

Now, To the user that speaks of AFi being a possible "gothic metal" or having a stronger "industrial" influence... come on now. Gothic punk seems as if it far more suiting. AFI is not nearly as close to Horror punk as horror punk tends to be more deranged and seemingly less morbid and less cautiously toned, in certain cases, as AFI. Sure, keep the genre up, but Gothic Punk is a far more "exact", if that's what it should be called, description.

Jotsko 06:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

They don't even sound like a band with a gothic influence, they're rather Pop Punk, emo like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.120.108.145 (talk) 23:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

"Normal" Rock?

Just so that everyone can get their stories straight AFI is not emo also the are not any type or variation of punk but the only reason I'm typing this is because this hardcore AFI fan keeps tying to tell me their just normal rock

I don't agree.They're not 'Normal' rock.Do you find any similarity between AFI and Queen/Rainbow/Guns N'Roses/Bon Jovi?No of course.Xr 1 07:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The closest genre (if one is even necessary) to classify AFI as would be homocore, since every member of the band is openly gay. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.139.151 (talk) 06:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

Who cares what is their sexual orientation?I'm their fan because of the music they make!And they're not gays.Xr 1 13:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

ummm.... what the hell about every member being openly gay!???? NONE of the members are openly gay, cos none of the members are gay.--Gpmuscillo 15:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

AFI is totally emo. have you heard some of the lyrics listed on the DECEMBERUNDERGROUND CD? totally emo. it is obviously emo. the only reason they won't say they are emo is because they are against stereotyping! p.s. i love afi. 164.113.22.136 18:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)me

could say the same about smashing pumpkins and nine inch nails lyrics and are they emo? no.

I've read most of the lyrics in the Decemberunderground and I don't understand why should they sound like emo lyrics?AFI are not emo. p.s. There's discussion if they are emo or not above.

Why don't you just check their MySpace. They say they are rock. Just ask them! Easiest way to settle the problem! 21 April 2007

I am sorry, but I just have to point this out for the sheer ignorance of it. People always think what the band puts is dogma, but it let us just go back in time to ask Hitler how he would wish his article to be portrayed? According to him, the "mass genocide" was "eugenics." Well geeze, thanks Hitler you certainly cleared that up by telling us what you did. Bands can not be trusted to even say what genre they are. It is the same principle, kkthx.

Okay listen up everyone, THERE'S NO BANDS THAT ARE JUST CALLED ROCK!!!! Rock is an umbrella term for anything from Rock N' Roll to Grindcore. People just hate calling these bands emo because people make fun of emo music and emo kids. Listen to the vocals on this band's songs then listen to the vocals on My Chemical Romance and you'll notice they all have the same whiny emo vocals. Therefore all those bands are emo despite the fact that both want to be just called rock. Besides, if this modern wave of rock bands is all just called rock, the 2000's will be remembered as the decade of "rock" despite the fact that rock has been around since the 1950's so basically teens in the 2000's have nothing to define their generation. --B o b b y 4 05:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

AFI started as a Hardcore Punk/Streetpunk band. They were heavily influenced by The Misfits as shown with the All Hallows and THe Art Of Drowning albums. However, starting with Sing the Sorrow, they've become a mainstream, money-mongering band who sold their Punk values, ideologies, and sound in favor of a more emo sound and style. Most people don't even realize that Sing The Sorrow wasn't their first album. They sold out, they changed their style, betrayed their punk roots in favor of garnering more money with mainstream success, and are, in my opinion, the reason for the major wave of emo kids who think they have problems because their parents refuse to buy them a car. They sold out, they are not punk, they are not rock, they are emo. And yes, it does refer to a corporate fashion exploitation. And that describes their style of music and dress and general appearance pretty well if you ask me.

Bands like AFI were the reason for kids rebelling and standing up for what they believed. Now they're poster bands for pretending to rebel by 'cutting my wrists so that when people see me they'll know I'm angry at my parents' rather than going to punk shows, moshing, starting punk bands, and expressing Anarchistic and anti-authoritarian views while dressing like the societal misfits they are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.243.118 (talk) 05:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Genre edit-warring

This has to stop. Certain parties are in danger of violating the three-revert rule. Please stick to consenus (which, as I understand it, is currently that Emo and variants do not belong in the genre section) and discuss changes on this page. →Ollie (talk • contribs) 01:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

There is an ongoing debate further up the page under AFI: emo?, however I think what you've done was a good thing. Diabolical 01:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

ENOUGH!

Do not change AFI's genre again. AFI is not alt rock. That's stupid. For one, alt rock is way to broad of a term. If you called something alt rock, they could play anything from red hot chilipeppers type crud, to yellowcard type crud, to fricking black flag type crud. It's too broad of a term. Second off, whichever little fan boy got insulted cause someone called AFI emo, needs to get a life. EMO IS NOT A DEROGATORY TERM! Emo is what AFI has become in recent years. I'm a fan of them. I fricking know what I'm talking about here. I've been keeping up with the progression of this band forever and I'm a fricking encyclopedia when it comes to punk sub-genres. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.253.34.86 (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

first off, emo is a way to describe some of the bands lyrics, yes. the music however, is far from emo. emo music is generally down-tempo and even when it is not it never reaches the breakneck speed of AFI's. the "emo" bands of today are not really emo. hawthorne heights and my chemical romance are not emo. they are pop rock with emo lyrics. jawbreaker and the promise ring are emo. alternative rock is a broad term, yes. but how do you define a band who in 15 years, have gone from having songs about cereal wars and key lime pie to having songs about making beauty stay if you take your life? also, chill out. we are all fans here. but dont proclaim that you know more about this band then someone else does.

I like how you misinterpret the lyrics to Miss Murder! - Enzo Dragon 02:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

how so enzo? i was just typing in the lyric as it is heard and didn't alter anything but tense.

Well, I'm all for blunted lyricism and obvious poetry, but I don't think Miss Murder falls into one of those categories, lyrically. After all, the rest of the song uses a lot of interpretable imagery, and it's careful not to give form to it's main players ("he", and "them") besides Miss Murder. Given that context, I think it's hard to assume that "take my life" refers to straight out suicide. HOWEVER, we probably shouldn't go on about this here. Get a hold of me if you want to carry on a conversation. - Enzo Dragon 06:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll explain the basic terms listed in the infobox:

• Punk rock: for the majority of their career, certainly. Backed up by various sources
• Hardcore: same as above
• Alternative rock: starting around 1999, they started gradually putting in a lot of gothic rock influence, which is one of the main alternative genres. They don't play outright goth, but they have also slowed down their tempos in recent albums and worked with producers like Butch Vig. Listed as alternative on Allmusic and goth in other places.
• Emo: I think this has to do primarily with Davey Havok's vocals. Nevertheless, Emo is used to label them on Allmusic as well, but that's the only place I've seen it used for the band so far. WesleyDodds 03:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

haha!!! then I gues MCR is hardcore punk, emo and punk rock too, so were does it leaves comeback kid, death by stereo, sex pistols and the get up kids exactly? in metal and pop punk? please!!! have some common sense, or are you sure this guys can influence a metal band and make it sound like as i lay dying or devildriver??? hahahaha

FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!! I am an AFI fan to!!!!! I may be 14 but I love them and emo is not what I would describe AFI as. EMO is a stupid term used for emotional... in other terms people who dress in black dont smile and slit their wrists. <-- stupid ha?? Whoever describes their lyrics as emo is wrong!!! Their lyrics are just meaningful!!! Its better than that other mainstream crap!!! AFI just expands on it and uses much more meaninful words. December underground may have a few songs that may seem 'emo' but emo is not a correct term!! Sing the Sorrow is more punk rock and even AFI believes that their music is not emo!!! ~crushed velvet~

supid you, you don't have right to insult if you have enough infrmation, cuz not all of emos ware black, not everyone that wares black is emo, not every emo slit their wrists, and not everyone that does is emo

Maybe the two of you should focus on learning basic grammar before filling up Wikipedia with this enlightening stuff; cuz liek u know. At the very least have a look at WP:Talk and WP:SIG. Kthxbye. --oKtosiTe_talk 14:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

hahahaha what I mean by that was: Stuipid you muthafucka: You don't have the right to insult if you DON'T have enough information, cuz (ya'll get it don't you? i mean "cuz" "'cause" can this be more easy?) not all of THE emos WEAR black, not everyone that WEARS black is emo... from here on everthing was writen right (i think)

What Exactly is Emo Anyway?

OK. I'm getting a little confused here. Is emo a music style? Is emo just a term used by labels to market bands? Or is emo emotionally depressed people that write poetry and slit their wrists(or don't slit their wrists. Doesn't matter. Just adds to my point). Everyone here seems to have a different perception about what is emo. The media does't make it any easier by labeling any popular band like My Chemical Romance(who is alternative rock) , Fall Out Boy (who is Pop) and [yes] AFI, emo. So lets cut this annoying emo term out of our vocabulary (and this article) until sombody gives a clear explanation about what it really means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.38.181 (talk) 03:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

We need to get this article locked.

I'm getting tired of idiots coming in and putting emo in the music genre area.

Hey, I think it should be locked too. It's not A Flute Inside people. Their page isn't a page for opinions

Actually, we don't need to lock it, we simply must revert vandalism. Editors, note that the first comment above was made by the same address that vandalized AFI (band) in recent days here. And when you revert vandalism, why not take the time to go back to the last clean version. Remove ALL the vandalism, not just one "Flute". BabuBhatt 16:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for that. My eight your old brother makes joke edits on wikipedia. I haven't vandalized anything. I am also a fan of AFI.

should someone put that the missing frame in the music videos is coming out in january? or is that fake cause i read it from here...

I really love reading the derogatory things, but what the hell is up with A Flue Inside? A Fag Inside I can understand, but really... --Gpmuscillo 11:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it gets locked. The random anonymous people can't add more stuff that is actually legit.

Well, u guys succeeded. It has been locked. Anyway, here's a site I think u should use instead of the other one http://www.afireinside.net/bio/ it's got more reference material.

rock American?

I understand there's been a lot of edit wars as far as the genre goes, but shouldn't rock American be American rock? --oKtosiTe talk 21:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Decemberunderground Cover.jpg

Image:Decemberunderground Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Since this image and the others used in the albums table were all non-free and used only for decorative purposes, I have removed them. →Ollie (talk • contribs) 01:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

In reference to the removal of gothic punk

This was already discussed previously, and it was decided on horror punk. Now, if you want you can remove horror punk but genre is for concise assignment and not influences or meaningless adjectives. Gothic punk, previously, was linked to gothic rock which is a misnomer and an error. However, this time I removed it and it was linked to the deathrock. This is an even LESS credible assignment, and has no foundation. There is no gothic punk genre, but if you want punk music with "horror" or "gothic " influences than by horror punk would be it. But deathrock and gothic rock are not punk, they are post punk and new wave. And I just wish to clarify it is not the horror element that makes gothic rock "gothic," it is a historical term that was used to describe them when the genre was started. Probably because it heralded the earlier times when gothic was a term that could describe something morosely romantic (as in passionate.) However, that is just to get an idea across not an invitation to debate it. The point is, the term "gothic punk" is not associated with either the deathrock or gothic rock genre. So remove it, link it to horror punk, or any other option but that one due to its clearly erroneous nature.

• Gothic rock.AFI have never been that.
• Deathrock is a part of the post-punk scene.But it's a step between punk and later established gothic rock.I'm not saying AFI's music is/have been deathrock (although I've said that...sorry :/ )
• Horror Punk is the Misfits style.AFI are influenced by them and have made horror punk in their 'All Hallows EP'.It can be used to describe them (and does it pretty good) but when comparing AFI's middle stuff with Misfits - they doesn't sound like they are in the same punk subgenre.
• Nevertheless AFI have used elements from these genres, mixed with punk rock/hardcore punk in the albums 'Black Sails in the Sunset' and 'The Art of Drowning'

This is what the term 'Goth Punk' represents and it's used for a long time to describe their music.

• I think it's best to put Goth Punk in the genre section with a reference to 'Black Sails and Art of Drowning era' where the characteristics of their style in this period are explained.

Xr 1 15:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I had to remove it. The reasoning behind this is that gothic punk is something applied to this band specifically. This is interesting in that it mirrors the argument with HIM. People attempted to use "Love Metal" but it is not an actual genre. It is only used in application to that specific band, and gothic punk is the same thing. The term does not warrant a genre. The source to the Rolling Stone site does not seem to provide any support. Neither does the AFI december site. Nothing in these sources also supports ANY influence from death rock. "Listening to AFI's teenage recordings, one never would have guessed they'd be future leaders of the eyeliner-punk pack (Alkaline Trio, My Chemical Romance) to fill in the blanks between the Cure and the Misfits. Emerging out of the same Bay Area punk scene that spawned Rancid and Green Day, AFI for most of their early career were associated with these groups but remained a step harder than their pop-punk contemporaries." Quotes like this set it even further from death rock, with The Cure only having the slightest connection (which is to gothic rock with their early work, and is not considered death rock.) I think it is a joke that the genre is linked to the description of an album within the same article. There is no identifying characteristics of this term "gothic punk." It is another artificial term used on some sites due to their lack of effort to offer a more introspective look into their work. THey feel that the term "gothic punk" is enough. All I see is thrown around adjectives, and "alot of 'darkness' ".

I just wanted to be accurate and in the genre paragraph to be written that they have a different style of punk in the two albums.But yeah gothic punk it's not a real genre, just a description used for that band.May be some they if other bands play music that will sound like the style from AFI's middle era, AFI will be recognized as creators of e new genre =] But that will never happen. Er...who knows but still. However there is an article about this genre-so it's real...I'm kidding of course :]Someone has put 'goth punk' with reference to this made up article... Xr 1 00:08, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Gothic punk is not a genre, it is a made up term. Since that it is the case it does not belong in a genre list.Crescentia 21:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we just have a misunderstanding as to what a genre is. Genre is broadly categorizing music in a perspective relative to OTHER music. If gothic punk only used for AFI, than it does not relate to any other band or any other styling. You answered your own predicament when you said it was just a description and not a real genre. I do not doubt you have the best of intentions and I assume good faith. However, it is not what the genre box is for.

Plain and simple...AFI was, is and are punk. put all the subgenre bs aside and see it for what it is. Yes, there music today may not be defined as such but we're referring to a band that has been around for 16 years. Did Henry Rollins keep the same sound for over a decade? No, but yet you would still refer to him as punk. AFI's music is an artistic evolution whos roots came straight out of the Eastbay Hardcore scene.

Requested edit

Instead of "another song from their Decemberunderground Album" in the televised appearances section under Live Earth, the actual song title, "The Missing Frame," should be included. It's actually included in the "mainstream success" section of the bio, so why wouldn't it also be stated using its proper name in the televised appearances section?

What's In an Ever Changing Name?

Back when AFI released "Answer That And Stay Fashionable" we knew them as A Bunch of F#cking Idiots, (maybe unofficially, but that was the word in Oakland at the time). Then, if I recall, we saw that they defined themseleves as Asking For It somewhere on the liner notes/album art of "Very Proud of Ya". Then the EP "A Fire Inside" gave us the name we all know now. How dead on/totally off is this history?

Completely correct. Davey introduced AFI as A Buncha Fucking Idiots at an early show. Then, I have a video interview found on www.afiseries.com where Adam says AFI = Asking For It. Not it's A Fire Inside. According to the liar of Davey, AFI has always stood for A Fire Inside.

Davey mostly tends to say that the name of the band containing himself, Adam, Hunter, and Jade has always meant A Fire Inside. He's been fairly ambiguous on what it meant before that. The impression I get is that the name of the band was "AFI," and it didn't really stand for anything special, beyond whatever they felt like saying at any given moment. Asking For It, Anthems For Insubordinates, Abuncha Fucking Idiots, Another Fucking Initial, etc. etc. --Blue Dream 23:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

No, Blue Dream, that's the fucking BULLSHIT that the Official Message Board says. The FAQ says "has AFI always stood for A Fire Inside?", and fails to answer the question. Anser should've been, "no. It stood for Asking For It, but you know, now that Davey has sold out, he likes to say it's always stood for A Fire Inside"

Also, you can find "Asking For It" as the name on the address for fan mail in some of the band's vinyl inserts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.76.114 (talk) 08:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

And their early EPs have their music credited to "Anthems For Insubordinates," so I'm not sure why people cling to "Asking For It". I also don't think you (both?) understood quite what I said. --Blue Dream (talk) 13:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Asking For It was simply their post box and anthems for insubordinates was their publishing company. as far as i know, the band was called AFI not standing for anything, and then fro anything official they'd make it follow the AFI acronym. and i'm pretty sure it only stood for a fire inside shortly after the a fire inside EP. and abuncha fucking idiots or another fucking inital were just joke things that theyd tell people when people asked what afi stood for. Gpmuscillo (talk) 22:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe someone could write a section on this? it seems notable, and quite extensive. kiac (talk) 06:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Emo. End of discussion.

If this isnt emo, then NOTHING is. look at their friggin haircuts FFS.

Do you actrualy think that just for the haircuts their emo??? my friend, no offence, but your VERY stupid, then Trivium were in their first album emo... Drop Dead, Gorgeous is emo... Blessthefall is emo... As I Lay Dying is emo... I could name sooo many bands that had the emo haircut and it's not for that thatt their emo

The truth is, I personally agree with the person above me in saying that a haircut does not constitute a genre (although, it could constitute a style, and in that way it could change the genre...). Anyway, 'emo' is'nt really a genre, mostly because 'emo' is derived from more than music, and doesn't really define what the music is going to be like. Genres should not be based off of stereotypes, as the 'emo' genre is. I think it would be best to keep their label as alternative.

Besides, their music ain't emo

As I lay dying is not emo,there christian metalcore,atrey and silverstein is emo,i know,i have the best of atreyu cd and when broken is easily fixed cd,listen to the lyrics,and the addition of screaming,screamo,screamo is the combination of screaming and emo lyrics,hence the name screamo,AFI is not emo,they are punk with lyrics that have a gothic and emotional element to it with a gothic look.

Screamo is not emo/screaming. It is a short name for Screaming, and Screamo is usually lyrics better screamed than sang. Not emo lyrics. Thebluekazoo (talk) 00:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Punk pop?

Shouldn't punk pop be added to their genres, as the all music guide puts the genres for both sing the sorrow and the art of drowning as punk pop. I also think that in the first opening paragraph, it should be mentioned that they are a punk/alternative band with gothic/deathrock influences. DavidJJJ 08:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

pop punk and AFI? no. pop punk is something like the new green day, simple plan and good charlotte. the only songs that can be considered as pop punk are grils not grey and miss murder. "punk/alternative band with gothic/deathrock influences" I liked that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xr 1 (talk • contribs) 23:55, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

I agree with you. The only reasons why i suggested punk pop was because of the all music guide. DavidJJJ 08:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Punk Pop, wow, that in itself is an oxy-moron.... BHynes10

They might have been pop-punk during Sing the Sorrow MAYBE. But I really think their first 3 CDs were punk and everything else, alternative rock. All Hallows could probably be called Horror-punk though. They are NOT gothic-punk. Adam said he hates when AFI gets called gothic-punk in an interview. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.48.162 (talk) 15:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Too Short?

Does anyone else think that the AFI article is to brief for a band that has been together for sixteen freaking years? The way I see it, the REALLY early years of AFI, the era before Answer That with all of the EP's should have it's own era, and STS and DU should have their own seperate seperate era's since they were released three years apart and both had long tours.

'Instead of:' Early Years Black Sails/Art of Drowning Era. Mainstream Era'. It should be: 'Early Years (Formation of the band up until right before ATASF. This would include Dork EP, Behind the Times EP, Eddie Picnic's All Wet, Bombing the Bay, Fly In The Oinment, and all of the other early releases) ATASF though SYMAOE era. This would also include A Fire Inside EP. Black Sails/All Hallows/Art of Drowning Era. Sing the Sorrow Era. Decemberundergrouund Era.

Especially the last two. I mean, the Sing the Sorrow era was three years long yet it's summarized in two lines on the page. It skips from AFI winning a VMA in mid-2003 straight to the release of Decemberunderground, in mid-2006. C'mon, enough happened in both of those era's for them to have seperate sections.

I think one of the problems with this is that there's not a lot of verifiable information about the really early days. I mean, the fans might know some things, because the band was fairly accessible to everyone back then, but it's not so easy to verify it nowadays. A lot of old interviews from that era, for example, were from local zines that are pretty much non-existant nowadays. As for between Sing the Sorrow and decemberunderground... well, honestly, they really didn't do all that much. For a band that used to put out an album every year, more or less, it was a period of great inactivity. I mean, releasing their cover of "Head Like a Hole" is practically the only thing they did in 2004 besides tour. --Blue Dream 20:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Please add the following External Link

• Interview with Davey on mindyourmind.ca —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.243.52 (talk) 16:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Newafilogo.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The house on Channing Way

The article contains several inaccuracies regarding the house and the band's involvement with the house at Channing Way. I know this because I lived at the house for about a year (from 2000 to 2001). The inaccuracies are as follows:

(1) The band did not, as far as I know, ever practice in the basement of the house, or anywhere else in or near the house. In fact, as far as I know, the house has no basement. (It is true however that the band lived at the house. They stayed there up until I think 2002 or 2003.)

(2) The Delta Chi connection is not accurately represented. The house was, as far as I know, either owned by the fraternity or parties closely connected to the fraternity during the entirety of AFI's stay. However: the house was not actively being used as a fraternity during the band's stay. The house was a rooming house up until 2002 or 2003, at which point in time the fraternity decided to reclaim the house. All existing residents left around this time (including the members of AFI). I believe the band remained residents for a short while after the fraternity had "reclaimed" the house. But, I do not believe this overlap lasted beyond a year.

75.52.122.60 (talk) 03:58, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

AFI (band) change to A.F.I.

Before I say anything else, I don't want any friggin' fanboys (or fangirls) yelling at me that it is AFI. I simply think the page should be renamed as A.F.I., because everything in my library from them is tagged as A.F.I., and the GHIII Companion CD lists them as A.F.I. ChaosVonGin (talk) 19:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Just because it's what comes up when you rip the CD into iTunes doesn't mean it's correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.76.114 (talk) 08:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't have iTunes. But, I have gotten a LOT of music from various peoples, and everything under AFI reads as A.F.I. wehn I get it, but if it's not tagged, when i use Amazon to tag it, it always comes up as A.F.I. ChaosVonGin (talk) 02:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

That may be, but the band themselves always refer to themselves as AFI, pretty much without exception. Also there are never any periods on their albums/EPs/singles, as far as I know. I think it's comparable to Amazon always capitalizing every word of songs and albums titles, even though we adjust to actual capitalization standards, not capitalizing words like "to" or "and". --Blue Dream (talk) 13:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

If you actually bought the albums (or at least downloaded the cover-art of every album) you would realise NONE of them says "A.F.I.". I own three afi albums + three vinyls (+mp3) and their name appears as: AFI, afi and Afi --Dexter_prog (talk • contribs • count) @ 20:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

The band is named "AFI" - it is said to stand for A Fire Inside, it does not derive from this though, so it's not an abbreviation, thus not needing the full-stops. kiac (talk) 06:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Post-Hardcore ?

Can we agree that modern AFI has grown off its original hardcore roots into something.... say, POST such as post-hardcore? If I am correct, post-hardcore takes into account the following as influences:

hardcore punk - AFI had its immediate roots in hardcore punk and it is still evident in their music no matter how drastic the change

post-punk - relatively loose punk offshoot; AFI's latest work have been featuring some controversially post-punk melodies such as some influences from goth rock

emo - well, to those that have an obsession with claiming AFI as 'emo' in modern terms, here it is. I'd use emocore as a better description, but it suits a lot of the mainstream success.

experimental rock - is there really more to say to this? AFI has been experimental rock for some time now, and has been finding their way through various stages of music for the last decade. how could you deny that they are experimental rock in any form?

Come on people. I think a lot of you have been blindsighted by the obsessing to put AFI into subcultural definitions such as 'emo' and 'goth' that giving them a genre such as post-hardcore has been skipped over. 24.192.249.57 (talk) 23:39, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think AFI are emo at all. I also don't think AFI are a goth band...However I have to agree some songs such as Ednlessly She Said & The Great Diasppointment are post-hardcore.But just few songs don't make a band that or that genre.. Xr 1 (talk) 16:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

the new ep

someones gotta mention the fact that the song ether is on the nascar 09 soundtrack and will be featured in the game, also that the song is downloadable from the soundtrack...making it ....RELEACED —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randommpony (talk • contribs) 03:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

RELEACED!!!!! 64.53.37.3 (talk) 08:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)