Right. Talk about private clubs. I understand that
the list serves mostly to facilitate improvements on
the site, and therefore runs to programming
conversations. HOWEVER, even though I have worked on
a development team where I had to deal with SQL
developers on a regular basis, I can't follow you guys
at all.
This is all in the way of showing that the geekspeak
is a bit exclusionary. Probably not in and of itself
a problem -- except that you guys are talking about
changes (and in the case of the new site, implementing
changes) that affect all of us other users -- AND YOU
AREN'T COMMUNICATING THEM. The FAQ's haven't really
been updated, lots of people seem unaware that the
/subpage no longer exists.... and even those of us
who would be happy to help document changes and spread
the word can't, because we don't speak programmer well
enough to be sure.
For pity's sake -- can we please clean up the
documentation for rev2 before going to rev2a? I'll
help -- but not unless somebody helps me first!
Thanks for letting me rant -- [[JHK]]
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Modest proposals (Uri Yanover)
2. Re: Modest proposals (Tim Chambers)
3. Re: Copyrights (Larry Sanger)
4. Re: Copyrights (Hr. Daniel Mikkelsen)
5. Re: Modest proposals (Uri Yanover)
6. Re: Re: Modest proposals (Jan Hidders)
7. Re: Modest proposals (Jan Hidders)
8. Re: Modest proposals (Uri Yanover)
9. Re: Re: Modest proposals (Jan Hidders)
10. MySQL dump available (Jan Hidders)
11. File upload Copyright notice (Axel Boldt)
12. Re: MySQL dump available (Jimmy Wales)
13. Summary of pseudo-subpage discussion (Magnus
Manske)
14. RE: MySQL dump available (Magnus Manske)
15. Re: Summary of pseudo-subpage discussion
(Michel Clasquin)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Uri Yanover" <uriyan_subscribe(a)yahoo.com>
To: <wikipedia-l(a)nupedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Modest proposals
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0200
Reply-To: wikipedia-l(a)nupedia.com
(4) When we think about policy options, it often
helps to consider
carefully what problem we're trying to solve,
and
to make sure that our
solution is the most elegant solution to that
problem. It is not entirely
clear to me what the problem is, in this case.
Originally, Uri Yanover
said:
>The problem is in the following: it is extremely
inconvenient
>(as a policy) to write "[[Middle
Earth/Elrond|Elrond]] was
>the lord of [[Middle
Earth/Rivendell|Rivendell]]"
than it is
>to write "[[Elrond]] was the lord of
[[Rivendell]]"
This suggests that the problem is *just* one
involved in typing long page
titles in order to create a link, but the
solution
offered by Uri solves a
lot more than that, so I'm not sure this is
exactly the problem he wants
to solve.
I used to think so when I'd written that post, but I
no longer do.
Having considered the subject for long enough, I
reached the
concept of aliases (more details in the mailing
list). The general
usefullness of aliases is for disambiguating (that
is, making [[root]]
point at [[root (mathematics)]] on pages concerning
with algebra
and at [[root (botanics)]] at pages concerning with
plants).
However, the other useful thing that could be done
with aliases
is facilitating the editing of pages like [[Middle
Earth]], so that
ineed [[Elrond]] on an a page that uses aliases
becomes
[[Elrond (Middle Earth)]]. But this use is
secondary, and
confined only to pages that describe a specific
universe.
The fact that the vast majority of the other
articles does not
use subpaging indicates that probably there won't be
too much
abuse of aliasing in this way.
What I don't like about Tim's idea is the fact that
it converts
the link automatically basing on parsing of the
article title.
But not only that would be inconvenient (making it
more
difficult to edit the article afterwards and
sometimes creating
links that the author doesn't want), it would also
be out
of policy, as it would essentially be a substitute
for subpages.
Sincerely yours,
Uri Yanover
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Tim Chambers" <tbchambers(a)yahoo.com>
To: "Wikipedia List" <wikipedia-l(a)nupedia.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Modest proposals
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:28:33 -0700
Reply-To: wikipedia-l(a)nupedia.com
I haven't seen a need to write again since making my
proposal, but today Uri
Yanover <uriyan_subscribe(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
What I don't like about Tim's idea is the
fact that
it converts
the link automatically basing on parsing of the
article title.
My proposal is archived at
There it can be seen that in addition to the simple
solution that does
convert links based on the article title, I did
include Uri's idea. To
summarize:
#base [[Fantasy Fiction]]
[[/elves]]
could be translated into this:
See also: [[Fantasy Fiction]].
[[elves (Fantasy Fiction)|elves]]
The system could remove the #base line completely
instead of translating it,
but I think it's useful to reflect by default that
there's a relationship
between the content of a given page and some other
related page. After all,
if the author doesn't like that behavior, he or she
can simply type the
links manually instead of using #base. Or the author
can edit twice: the
first is a major edit, and the second is a minor
edit to remove the See
also: line.
Uri's original #base idea is archived at
.
but
the features are very similar.
The key differences between my proposal and his are:
1. I propose a solution that converts text during
save, while Uri proposed
adding to the wikipedia's source syntax.
2. I propose the disambiguating syntax -- [[title
(context)]] -- while Uri
proposed subpage syntax -- [[context/title]].
However, Uri also said yesterday in
that
he "didn't mean to use aliaes mainly to categorize,
but rather to
_disambiguate_ (e.g. [[root (botanics)]] vs. [[root
(mathematics)]])." So I
assume he's flexible on #2.
I take it that there's consensus on the part that
deals with link
conversion.
=== message truncated ===
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