Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Re: Michael's threats

First Mav, would you forgive me for not enveloping my opinion in honey enough. I seem to remember that nearly a year ago you explained to me, your personality type made you go to the point without unnecessarily circonvolutions. I remember you told me I should not feel hurt if you sounded a little bit short sometimes, as it meant no agressivity from you toward others, but rather the deep need to go to the point quickly and efficiently. I tought it would be best maybe for us to understand each other if I were doing just the same when talking to you, rather than losing myself in complicated explanations as I unfortunately quite often do. --- Daniel Mayer <maveric149(a)yahoo.com> wrote: You might remember that until november 2002, so not a very long time ago, the french wikipedia was still using the old software phase I, as most of the international wikipedias, when english wikipedia was already benefitting of the wonderful new features of phase III. So sure enough, I remember quite well this time when IPs were displayed. Though I also remember it is not ips that were displayed on my browser for recent changes, but some mi-textual mi-numbered complicated address which in fact allowed very well to distinguish who was posting from where (city). Which is why the "old" collegues on the french wikipedia know very well from where I am from, and which type of line I have. At that time, in my city, when I took the adsl, we were precisely 58 users. For the adsl just arrived then (and there is only one provider). I also remember quite well that I was one of the 3 first sysops on the french wiki, and that at that time, a deletion made by a sysop was final. I also remember we could ourselves ban ips (so...user ips as well), action which was not possible by any others than Jimbo and Larry (if I understood well) on the english wiki in phase I. And I found that it could possibly lead to abuse :-) However, every user could see everyone ips. Not only sysop. So, that's not a long lost ability 1. the ability of seing ips adress was global, not sysop restricted 2. no sysop in phase I 1) the so-called MIT-vandal was trashing yes, yes, yes But again, 2 unique cases are not a reason for generalization of such a controversial process. Clearly the problem is not that sysop can or cannot see an ip, the problem is there are not enough "developers" with the ability to look in the database and answer a very urgent request such as heavy vandalism and suicid issues. I was not insulting. I was going to the point. I saw nowhere there was a consensus about this. http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2003-February/008954.html One message on the main wiki. A comment, and a question. Thats all. http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001242.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001034.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001043.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001050.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001099.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001100.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001030.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001037.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-February/001164.html English list And only about extrem cases > And on WikiTech-l http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-February/002625.html http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-February/002655.html If seeing user ips is a consensus, I am *sure* tech will find a technical way to make that possible But deciding whether sysop could see user ips or not, is not a tech issue, it is a global issue. So, the tech list is not the place to discuss it. hum... I have no memories about these discussions Maybe someone could help us here ? Since when has there been a wonderful comprehensive cooperative encyclopedia built on consensus on the Internet ? Hum...surprising then that you ever found out that poor depressed student. And your belief upon ISP ethics is maybe based on american ISPs. Not on other countries ISPs. Apology. I rephrase then. I don't see why any sysop, on any wikipedias, would be given the right to know who any non-sysops are. I think you understood what I meant there, as you mentionned in your private post. That type of morality seems Hum...this is the second time that a wikipedian appears to have doubts on my morality in 24 hours. I *think* it would be nice between wikipedians to avoid this type of statement and recognise we are different, and might actually not share the same morality. Moral rules are personal issues. Just because By default, I trust users and sysops and anoms just the same. If we can't trust users and anom, then we might as well prevent them from editing alltogether. Besides, long term users or sysops on a minor wikipedia are obviously not trusted on the big wikipedia. So, allow me to take this "let's trust our sysops" with precautions. Yup ! So let's not display unnessarily information about them to the whole world ! You know...there are really some crazy people on the net ! Hum...to be constructive...would it be possible to ban *anyone* - doing anything that could be thought wrong - (I mean, sysops included :-)) After all, we could generalize the agreement system for any banning (discussions for controversial banning, immediate banning for obvious case of vandalism) And I am sure there could a tech way to ban a user without displaying his ip to the sysop. Have a very good evening Mav. I hope you will not think I was insulting you here. I really don't mean to. So we can both go on disagreeing. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com