Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Anonimu[edit]

    Topic ban modified to post-2000 Russia/Ukraine relations. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Anonimu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)Anonimu (talk) 17:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sanction being appealed
    Broad topic ban from the subject of Eastern European topics, imposed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive303#Anonimu, reconfirmed 2 days later at, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive304#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Anonimu, and logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2022#Eastern_Europe
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    El_C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    diff

    Statement by Anonimu[edit]

    More than 2 years have passed since the ban was enacted. I am fully aware that my behaviour then was far from encouraging civil and productive discussion of the content in a highly contentious topic (Russian-Ukrainian war), and I am sorry for that. My plan was to wait for the war to end before appealing the topic ban, unfortunately it is dragging on with seemingly no perspective of peace. Due to lack of sources/interest in other topic areas, as well as the broadness of the topic ban, in the past two years my editing was mostly restricted to fixing some issues and adding some content related to areas that could not possibly be considered as connected to Eastern Europe. I think that restricting the area of the topic ban would allow me to come back to more productive editing. Thus, if you consider that the topic ban cannot be completely overturned, restricting the topic ban to modern Russian-Ukrainian relations (say, after 2000) would still serve as a remedy to the original situation, while not preventing me from using the knowledge and sources I have in order to improve Wikipedia content related to other areas of Eastern Europe. Thank you. Anonimu (talk) 17:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • El_C: I was a bit confused about the procedure, considering the first failed appeal. I am impartial about which way to finalize this appeal procedure. As mentioned in my initial statement, I am fine with any result that allows me to contribute to articles regarding Eastern Europe not related to the current Russian-Ukrainian conflict. Anonimu (talk) 10:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by El_C[edit]

    • This appeal lists a previously failed appeal, but not the original enforcement action. El_C 17:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • No objection on narrowing the scope on my part. El_C 19:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Anonimu, since this a sanction originally imposed by me, I can just implement the change you proposed immediately, unless you'd rather go through the appeal process and let someone else close it (likely with the same outcome). So let me know what you prefer. El_C 23:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Anonimu, since it's not a clear yes from you, I'll let the appeal run its course, and let someone else close it and enter the changes into the log. El_C 13:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by tgeorgescu[edit]

    Anonimu can be an useful editor. I don't say this because I like his POV, but because he can act as a counterweight to Romanian nationalist POV-pushers. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (involved editor 1)[edit]

    Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Anonimu[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)[edit]

    Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]

    Result of the appeal by Anonimu[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I'm generally favorable to a loosening of sanctions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm going to give this another day to see if there is any further input and if there's no objection close this with an adjustment to a topic ban on post-2000 Russia/Ukraine relations, unless El_C feels like amending it now. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:18, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Christsos[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Christsos[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Pppery (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Christsos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:ARBPIA4 extended-confirmed restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Created Faiq Al-Mabhouh
    2. Created Ibrahim Biari (deleted by me as G4)
    3. Created Draft:Eyal Shuminov

    All of these are very obviously related to the conflict

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 19:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC) (see the system log linked to above).[reply]
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    User talk:Christsos#Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion


    Discussion concerning Christsos[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Christsos[edit]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Christsos[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Christsos, if you have anything to say, now would be the time. It looks like all of these happened after you were explicitly left a contentious topics notice informing you of the 30/500 restrictions, so can you please explain why you are clearly violating that? I'll give you a short while to explain, but otherwise I'm very much leaning toward a sanction. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:06, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm on the same page. They haven't edited in a couple days so there's no immediate need to step in. We can wait to see if there's a decent response. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Seraphimblade. they're still not around. How do you feel about a logged warning that the next violation will result in a one week block, followed by escalating blocks for further violations? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      ScottishFinnishRadish, I'm not a fan of that, as we'd essentially be tying the hands of future admins as to what to do if the violations continue (if it's a highly technical and probably inadvertent violation, maybe they only want to block for a day, and if it's egregious and obviously intentional, maybe they go right to a month, or even indef if the editor states they intend to keep violating it). I don't think we should predetermine the outcome of future actions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:38, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'll buy that, yeah. So a non-specific logged warning? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:41, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    BilledMammal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:33, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Entropyandvodka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    WP:1RR violations and 1RR gaming at Israeli war crimes:

    1. 02:22, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found that Israel had committed genocide)
    2. 07:05, 21 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → finding reasonable grounds that Israel had committed genocide)
      Was requested to self revert at 07:51, 21 April 2024. Did so at 22:58, 21 April 2024, saying Self reverting per request, as that edit can be considered a revert. Will be putting that material back in later tonight for the same reasons.
    3. 06:18, 22 April 2024 (said that Israel had committed genocide → found Israel was committing genocide)

    I don't know whether 06:18 is a second 1RR violation, but it is gaming of 1RR and seeing 1RR as an allowance, rather than a hard limit - reimplementing a reverted violation 23 hours after initially implementing it and seven hours after reverting it is not aligned with our expectations regarding self-reverting violations.

    I requested they re-self-revert; they have refused to do so, and are now arguing that 07:05, 21 April 2024 was not a revert.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5:10, 13 October 2023 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    There's a few other recent 1RR violations (for example, 02:21, 9 April 2024 and 16:46, 8 April 2024), but no recent gaming as far as I can tell.

    The issue with this one, though, is how blatant it is; they didn't wait 24 hours to revert back to their preferred version after self-reverting, they waited just seven - if we don't consider the time the between making the violating revert (07:05) and self-reverting the violation (22:58) it means they reverted back to their preferred version just twelve hours after initially reverting to their preferred version.

    If this is permissible, then that means editors who wait 24 hours from their first revert to self revert would be permitted to revert back immediately after self reverting, making the restriction considerably less effective at preventing edit warring and disruption. 22:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    19:31, 28 April 2024

    Discussion concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This is misleading. While edit 1 was a revert, edits 2 and 3 were not reverts, per the guidelines in WP:Reverting. The paragraph in all versions contains the proposition that Francesca Albanese said (or stated) that Israel had committed or was committing genocide, providing her exact quote. Edits 2 and 3 didn't change this. They added additional propositions (she submitted a report, the findings/conclusion of the report). The term 'found' here refers to the findings/conclusions contained in her submitted report, which was passingly referenced in the initial version before BilledMammal's later-reverted edit. BilledMammal's edit essentially just made the same explicit proposition twice in two consecutive sentences. Edits 2 and 3 fall into the classification of examples provided in WP:Reverting as 'A normal change, not a reversion' as they add additional propositions without removing any. Boiling down the propositions in the differences, we have:

    Edit before BilledMammal edit: She found X. She said X

    BilledMammal edit (before the reversion) She said X. She said X.

    Edits 2 and 3 (not reversions) She submitted report X, which found/concluded X. She said X.

    I'd point out briefly here that the initial version, before and after BilledMammal's reverted edit, did warrant revision, as it referred to the findings/conclusion of a report without explicitly mentioning the report. I now think BilledMammal was right to make that initial edit, and I was wrong to simply revert it, as that original form of the sentence with no additional information would go against MOS:SAID. Edit 1, the revert I did make of BilledMammal's edit, failed to address this issue, but the subsequent edits 2 and 3 addressed this, without information/proposition loss. Edit 3 was a slightly clearer version of edit 2.

    After edit 2, in which I first added the additional material, BilledMammal accused me of violating 1RR. I self-reverted when requested to, in the spirit of collaboration, though didn't agree that adding that material constituted a revert, and ultimately added it later in edit 3. All the material is RS-backed, and provides informative and relevant context. If I'm correct that edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reversions, then there's no 1RR violation. If I believed edit 2 or edit 3 constituted a revert, I wouldn't have made either edit.

    On my talk page, I attempted multiple times to engage with BilledMammal about the substance of the issue, sought feedback, asking how BilledMammal wanted to write it to add the additional material. BilledMammal repeatedly refused to engage much about the topic, showed no interest in seeking consensus, instead accusing me of a 1RR violation and demanding I self-revert to BilledMammal's version. BilledMammal then threatened arbitration if I didn't comply. I made a good faith attempt to show to BilledMammal why I believe edits 2 and 3 don't constitute reverts, and offered two more suggestions to reach an inclusive consensus. BilledMammal did not respond to these suggestions.

    ScottishFinnishRadish,Seraphimblade Understood, regarding what constitutes reverting. I'll be mindful of that in the future. Regarding the user talk page thing, it was BilledMammal that came to my talk page, where I responded and attempted to reach a consensus. In the future, I'll redirect such talks to the article talk page. I should have started a talk there anyway before edits 2 and 3.

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Entropyandvodka[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • The self-revert remedied the 1RR violation, and their revert back to their preferred version after 24 hours wasn't great, but was not a 1RR violation. Is there a pattern of 1RR gaming, or just this single example? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Entropyandvodka, those were reverts. Just because you're not using undo, rollback, or a tool like twinkle doesn't mean that modifying the same piece with a slight rewording isn't reverting. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • If this is just a single instance, I would be okay with a logged warning, including a reminder that 1RR is not an entitlement to do another revert at 24 hours and 1 minute from the first. Entropyandvodka, if someone objects to an edit you made, go to the article talk page (not a user talk page), find out why they objected, discuss it with anyone else who participates, and see, by suggesting stuff on talk, if you can address those concerns. If you come to an impasse, dispute resolution is available at that point. But yes, tweaking your edit a little bit and making it again still is reverting, if the edit is still substantially similar to the last one. We have to treat it that way; otherwise there would be no end of gaming with that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm fine with a logged warning as well, now that 1RR and what a revert is has been clarified. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon[edit]

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Cossde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Petextrodon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Sri Lanka
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source that has been established as a pro-rebel.
    2. 26 April 2024 use of a primary source
    3. 28 April 2024 use of single source the has WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS under WP:EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This page as seen weeks of WP:BATTLEGROUND and possible WP:NAT editing, with controversial content been added with single sources that are most cases primary sources that have clear conflict of intrests and even been labled "pro-rebal". Some other sources with WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS, that makes the content appear WP:OR. Request for more citations per WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:CHALLENGE have been refused. Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile.

    Following attempts for dispute resolution have been tried:

    In response to the comments made here, my stand is that if the admins here feel that a topic band for 30 days or one year to myself or to Petextrodon or both, so be it. However, I request that my band would be limited to Sri Lankan Civil War related topics since my edits on broader Sri Lankan topics have not been hot topics and I have been contributing for over an decade.

    In the matter at hand I would request admin intervention to review the content dispute. I have raised this issue in RSN ([1]) and there has been no result. Clearly the article in question does not meet WP standards of WP:NPOV and I request an independent review, mainly regarding the poor sourcing and use of primary sources. In another RSN ([2]) it was mentioned that "As with other advocacy groups… caution is needed. Statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY sources… certainly reliable for verifying that they take a given stance on an issue, but not necessarily de-facto reliable for the accuracy of the background material used to take that stance." It is vital that this takes place now due to the WP:BATTLE ([3], [4], [5], [6], [7]) that’s is taking place regarding topics associated with the Sri Lankan Civil War, with a clear group of editors including Pharaoh of the Wizards editing on one side of this battle ([8], [9]). I am not surpised to see his support of Petextrodon, an editor who has no content contribution beyound Sri Lankan Civil War topics. Cossde (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • (@ScottishFinnishRadish) RFCs on related topics have seen vote stacking. Cossde (talk) 14:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Petextrodon&diff=prev&oldid=1221697850

    Discussion concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Petextrodon[edit]

    I don't think the issue is truly about the number of citations which is why user Cossde deleted even the content backed by two RS citations, Human Rights Watch and Routledge scholarly publication. More crucially, Cossde may be guilty of vandalism for repeatedly deleting sourced content [1][2], since no Wikipedia rule states that a content without more than one RS should be removed. Also, the user is well-aware that Wikipedia:WikiProject Sri Lanka Reconciliation/Sources classified the UTHR as RS long ago and recently classified NESOHR as a "Qualified source" that can be cited with attribution. As for Frontline (magazine), that's a mainstream news magazine that any reasonable editor can see meets the criteria of RS. As for Uthayan newspaper, I had repeatedly explained to this user in the talk page that it was a registered and award-winning Sri Lankan newspaper yet they weren't satisfied by this explanation and refused to explain why they questioned its reliability.

    Cossde has a long history of deleting reliably sourced content [1][2][3] that are critical of the Sri Lankan government and its armed forces. To me this looks like WP:nationalist editing, especially given the blatant double standards this user has shown regarding the use of sources on multiple occasions:

    They did not address their blatant double standards despite my repeated requests to do so in the talk page. It would appear from this to any reasonable observer that Cossde is more bothered by the nature of the content than the reliability of the sources. I hope the admins review the reporter's own behavior so the vandalism issue can be sorted and I wouldn't have to open a separate enforcement request against this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Robert McClenon, Just to clarify, why should I be punished for contributing to Wikipedia? What rules have I broken? I'm being hounded for my good faith contribution by this user for the past several weeks and not vice versa. But I agree with you on the interaction ban as I have no desire to engage in pointless disputes and edit war with this user. I'm very much capable of reaching amicable compromise with users I disagree with as I indeed have on several occasions with another Sri Lankan user, SinhalaLion. But unfortunately it has not been possible with this user. --- Petextrodon (talk) 21:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC) Moved to correct section. Please comment only in your own section; threaded discussion is not allowed at AE. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC) [reply]

    Statement by Pharaoh of the Wizards[edit]

    See no violation this is at best a content dispute which needs to be resolved elsewhere.Further there no CT alerts.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Petextrodon is dedicated contributor in the Sri Lanka area and see no reason for action.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Bookku (Uninvolved)[edit]

    I don't have detail background but wondering whether really no scope for WP:DDE protocol? and any difficulties to go through WP:RfCs, or RfCs happened but did not mention in above difs? Bookku (talk) 16:44, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Robert McClenon (another Sri Lanka dispute, another forum)[edit]

    I am asking the administrators at this noticeboard to do something, because there are too many disputes between User:Cossde and User:Petextrodon. I am ready to provide a list of these disputes again, which I already provided to ArbCom in support of identifying Sri Lanka as a contentious topic, and especially the Sri Lankan Civil War, but I know that the administrators here know how to look up the record as well as I do.

    User:Petextrodon alleges that User:Cossde's removal of sourced content is vandalism. It is not vandalism, and an editor who has been editing Wikipedia long enough to know what is vandalism should also know what is not vandalism, and POV pushing is not vandalism, although it is often reported as vandalism. However, Petextrodon's complaint should be treated as a counter-complaint of disruptive editing and POV pushing by User:Cossde.

    Something needs to be done to curb these disputes. The obvious, but probably wrong, answer is to impose an interaction ban, because these editors do not like each other. The problem is that that will provide a first-mover advantage, and so may actually encourage pre-emptive biased editing. So I recommend that the first step be to topic-ban both of these editors from Sri Lanka for thirty days to give one or another of the administrators time to review the record in detail and determine which editor is more at fault, and extend the topic-ban to one year, or determine that both editors are at fault, and topic-ban them both for one year. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:00, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by (username)[edit]

    Result concerning Petextrodon[edit]

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Hence I am requesting arbitration to settle this matter by establishing the quality, type and style of citations needed for this artcile. That isn't what arbitration enforcement is for. Have you opened an RFC on the sourcing disagreement? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clerk notes (Petextrodon)[edit]