Talk:Tartar sauce

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Please update[edit]

Why the fuck is this page so short? Where is the history on tartar sauce? Why isn't there a section on it's relevance in pop culture? Get on this Wikipedies or whatever you guys call yourselves. Thank you and I hope this formated properly

In Australia, Singapore, HK and all English speaking Asia it is tartare. Same for continental Europe. Perhaps Canada might be an example of non US usage of "tartar"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.15.64.55 (talk) 00:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]


About name: I've always enjoyed it with the final "e", as a french expression, "à la tartare".

I think in English it's "tartar sauce"; maybe in French it's "tartare sauce", but this article is written in English. Does any native speaker of English write "tartare" other than affectedly?

The spelling with the E is used quite widely in England (I assume the rest of the UK also), although "tartar" is probably as common. --Camembert

In the United States, we only use tartare when referring to steak tartare. -- Zoe

My BR.Eng. dictionary has only "tartar sauce" and choice of "steak tartar(e)". -- Tarquin
Let's move it then. I only ever use "tartar" myself, but I'm sure I've seen "tartare" quite often (isn't that what it says on those little sachets of the stuff you get in pubs? - maybe I'm imagining it) --Camembert


What an excellent excuse to go to the pub! ... pity it's past 11pm :( -- Tarquin

With an 'e' or without?[edit]

The correct spelling is 'Tartare' not 'Tatar' the title of this whole article is wrong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.11.148 (talk) 02:00, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, what a confusion! I was amazed to see the discussion as I've never even heard of tartar sauce with no 'e'.I searched Google and got the following numbers:

In the UK[edit]

Worldwide[edit]

  • tartare sauce: 26300 results
  • tartar sauce: 131000 results

Which suggests to me that actually the correct usage is the opposite of that shown on the page at present - ie 'tartare' is for British usage, and 'tartar' is for international. I'm inclined to change the article to reflect this if nobody minds. Comments? Naturenet 16:33, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Let's change it. Vive la tartar. 66.93.38.80 06:59, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have made the change. I suppose somebody might want to move all of this to Tartar sauce and make Tartare sauce the redirect. I'd have no objection if they did but to be honest, I don't think it matters as both come to the same page either way. Naturenet 07:20, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you could claim that "tartar" is the "International" word - It just means that there are more Americans than the rest of us. Similar to the way "color" returns 869 million results and "color" only 180 or so million.70.189.211.215 (talk) 19:38, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's "tartare" in Australia too, not just the UK. I've never seen it spelt without the E here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.96.207 (talk) 16:27, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
::::if it's been changed, why does the page still say Tartar not Tartare? It's key to note that all of the references used on the page actually refer to Tartare. Clearly it is tartare sauce and this article is wrongly titled.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.230.214 (talk) 00:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

Tartar sauce is the more common name, as evidenced above.

Voting[edit]

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Oppose. Under WP rules, where a clash occurs between British and Commonwealth English spelling versus American English spelling, and the topic clearly belongs to neither, the page uses the spelling used by the creator of the article. That appears to be the British and Commonwealth English spelling, so under WP rules it is supposed to remain at that BE/CE spelling with a redirect for the American English version. The scale of usage is not the deciding factor. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 01:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion[edit]

maybe more common but quite simply wrong - the etymology derives from the French - nothing to do with the Tartars whatsoever - its a French proper noun adopted into English. Americans have lazily dropped the 'e' for some reason known only to themselves! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.11.148 (talk) 2008-12-17T02:03:40

Result[edit]

Moved. WhiteNight T | @ | C 20:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved it back. As FearÉIREANN pointed out the correct policy here is WP:ENGVAR and local consensus doesn't overrule that. Otherwise we'd see the whole project drift into American English. ϢereSpielChequers 15:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • For future reference: FearÉIREANN (and in 2012, also WereSpielChequers) was incorrect, the very first revision of this page was the American English version. The requested move was more a formality than anything... —Locke Cole • t • c 15:51, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chicken?[edit]

The photo is of chicken and tartar sauce. I don't think I have ever seen anyone use it on chicken before. Why not use something more traditional, such as fish? -- Soupisgoodfood 04:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they didnt have a picture of that. 202.82.171.186 23:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think a better photo is needed then this one. Never seen that much sauce used on one plate and it is a very messy plate. There is also way to much food for that size of plate. I am going to check to see if I have a better photo or I will just take one my self. AdmRiley (talk) 19:55, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Auguste Escoffier wrote 1903/1907 in his famous "Bible of the Haute Cuisine", "A guide to moderne Cookery", in recipe No. 1645, Poulet de grains tartare, citation from the English translation of 1907: "Preceed as in (recipe) No. 1636 (Poulet de grains grille diable), but serve a Tartare sauce at the same time." That is the whole recipe and all about "...I have never seen anyone...", a higher accolade is not available, nowhere. And while Sauce Tartare is mostly concidered to be identical with Sauce Remoulade, it is a present time standard to serve chicken with that kind sauces, e.g. as chicken sandwich or as cold chicken salad. Check my yesterday changes of the artikle regarding Escoffier, Bocus, Mrs. Beeton, Austrian practice and German dictionary.--46.114.37.136 (talk) 08:20, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Carrots[edit]

The pic DOES seem to show carrots in the tartar sauce, and I think I have seen that before. Maybe carrots should be added to the list of ingredients sometimes added. 202.82.171.186 23:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology[edit]

Are we sure about this etymology? It seems quite likely the sauce derives from Turkish, Balkan and Caucasian tarator, which can be a soup or a sauce, and features cucumber and herbs in yoghurt. The switch to mayonnaise for a more stable commercial product would be readily understandable.Sjwells53 (talk) 14:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The etymology needs to be added to the article, for it to be properly encyclopedic. Badagnani (talk) 16:58, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, the Tartars were not from Turkey, they were from the Mongolian Steppe. The name referred to Tartarus, where they were thought to originate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.72.171 (talk) 17:41, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands right now, the entire History and Etymology section is questionable to me. Unless the information and connections outlined in the section are sourced reliably, it seems irresponsible for it to be included at all. Thomasemoran (talk) 17:29, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed it. There is no connection between tartar sauce and the Tartars. --98.200.68.218 (talk) 13:48, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The current etymology part is a joke. We have conflicting claims within a single sentence that tartare sauce was named after the steak, and that the steak was named after the sauce. In the article for steak tartare, tartare sauce is linked as the possible etymological source of the steak's name. To add insult to injury, the etymology section has no citations.2A02:8106:6F:4900:DBAD:B954:9A6E:24E6 (talk) 13:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Having different, competing etymologies for a word is not uncommon, and does not make that section "a joke". But I agree there should certainly be citations, or the material is almost worthless. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
wikt:tartar says it's derived from the Mongol tribe wikt:Tartar? 17:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
Oh well, it seems no-one wants to look. Or even discuss here. Rules are rules, it seems, whether we can improve the article or not. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Merriam-Webster says simply "French sauce tartare". The French wiki article Sauce tartare says this (via GoogleTranslate):
According to Joseph Favre,[1]. the term “tartare” comes from the Nordic barbarians, and is applied to grilled breaded preparations , accompanied by a spicy sauce; breaded preparations were then called "à la polonaise" in French cuisine, but the name remained for the sauce.
The Tartars are a misnomer of the Turkish-Mongol peoples , whose territory was also called Tartary in the West, coming from a confusion with the Turkish people of the Tatars , living near the Mongols. These peoples brought to Europe many brewery dishes based on the diet of Eastern Europe, such as sauerkraut (brought from the northeast , Tungus region of China by the Huns [see article]; also found sausages and pork knuckle in traditional cuisine), or steak tartare, also traditionally eaten as yukhoe , in Korea . The culture of this one is very influenced by the Mongols ( Mongolian and Ssireum wrestling , language , shamanic traditions... )
Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Joseph Favre, Dictionnaire universel de cuisine. Encyclopédie illustrée d'Hygiène alimentaire, Librairie-imprimerie de la Bourse de commerce, Paris, 1883, p. 1846 et 1847.

Ingredients for Tartar Sauce[edit]

I just finished researching the standard ingredients for tartar sauce. From a pool of approximately 50 random internet recipes, I randomly sampled 12 and recorded the ingredients found in each recipe (the item, not the amount). I found the following frequencies of occurrence in the recipes:

Mayonnaise 100% Pickles 100% Capers 88% Lemon juice 88% Parsley 62% Salt 50%

Black Pepper 37% Mustard 25% Worcestshire 25% Onions 25%

Other ingredients listed in ONE recipe only were: cayenne, chives, dill(spice not pickle), garlic, horseradish, olive oil, olives, tarragon, and white wine.

I would strongly suggest that this article restrict the "STANDARD" ingredient list to those representing 50% or more of the recipes: Mayonnaise, Pickles, Capers, Lemon juice, Parsley, and Salt. N0w8st8s (talk) 17:50, 24 April 2011 (UTC)n0w8st8s[reply]

The Secret Life of Sauces: Tarter Sauce is Mayonnaise and Pickle Relish. Most popular commercial preparations in the US reflect this. Home cooks here make it this way, adding some seasoning (commonly mustard) to taste.

I just read the ingredients list in this article, and capers? I've never heard of a commercial preparation that uses capers instead of or in addition to pickle relish. Maybe it's more common in home preparation or something but the ones you buy in the store don't have capers. 67.83.203.249 (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Food service Tartar Sauce is typically made from mayonnaise and sweet pickle relish, with a dash of lemon. It's exceedingly easy to make, and cheap.

Pickle Relish (Dill Relish) is not even mentioned in the article; it is the most common ingredient added to mayonnaise to make tarter sauce at home, and appears by name in the ingredients list of many commercial preparations. Drsruli (talk) 06:38, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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