Talk:Riding shotgun

Untitled

The rules of shotgun are varied among different social groups.  There are probably thousands of variations.  But they have evolved to promote civility in allocating a scarce resource (the front seat).  

One variation is that you cannot call “shotgun” until you have left the building. IE you cannot call “shotgun” as soon as the ignition is off but rather have to wait until you have run your errand and have left the front door of the building. However usually only the driver has to hear it to confirm not everyone in the party.

There are also rule regarding the number of times one person can ride shotgun in a row. Usually two or three times are the limit (formal and informal). It is common courtesy to surrender shotgun in this circumstance even if you have the legal right to "shotgun". However this is up to the discretion of the person owning the rights and sometimes is not enforced due to large age disparity or much lower social standing of those in the back seat. On the exact subject, sometimes the person who calls shotgun can loose it to someone of higher social ranking. But unilateral action like this is uncommon and usually frowned upon.

In American culture, breaking shotgun rules is considered a grave faux pas.

Really? Is this an accurate NPOV description of US culture, or an isolated cultural habit? Can some USians confirm or deny this? -- Pde 06:09, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

There is a serious study done of dialect across the united states at harvard here. 129.89.197.117 22:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Not really. Calling shotgun is something a brother and sister might fight over. Perhaps some people take where they get to sit in the car seriously, but most normal people don't. It is sort of like saying "I've got dibs on the last doughnut". It might be rude for someone else to eat the doughnut after that, but calling dibs in the first place is in of itself rude and childish. Sounds like the article was written in an overly serious tone for laughs. InanimateCarbonRod 06:15, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

In North America, there is a longstanding tradition...

We were just arguing about shotgun rules today after I made a late shotgun call - here in New Zealand. So perhaps this should be widened - "In North America and elsewhere.."? Adrian.baker 06:11, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I'd never heard of it until I read it in a webcomic and immediately got confused. I'm not sure whether it really is used in parts of Britain, but as I said... it was completely alien to me outside of certain informal american influences. Admittedly, I (and my family) have a very formal positioning structure as regards automobile seating places... so this situation would never have arisen with us anyway. ~ SotiCoto 195.33.121.133 11:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Laser / Double Barrel

Can anyone cite a source or provide additional information on the Laser / Double Barrel thing? I've never heard of it and it doesn't make much sense. Why have a phrase that negates Shotgun? If people do actually use this, what are the limitations on it? That is, if "Laser" is acceptable in your group, why would you not call it every time someone beats you to "Shotgun"? Do you risk a beating, or what? Some details would be nice. If nobody who does the "Laser" thing can provide some info I'll remove the passage. TomTheHand 18:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

shotgun slaping

This is a simple rule that lets anyone over rule the shotgun call. When some one has said shotgun then you can just call out "shotgun slap" and get the front seet. (it has to be done shortly after the first call.)

Umm...I think you are mis-hearing "Shotgun's lap", from RvB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.199.215.48 (talk) 09:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Not only in english-speaking countries

Hey guys, this game is very popular in germany, I know it now since two years I think. You can mention this in your article. Greetings from germany ;)

Greetings! So, what does one yell out in German? Oh, and if you can help out with verifying any part of the article, please do. Melchoir 19:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry dude, i am no wiki-author, you must do this for yourself ;). But we in germany are yelling the word shotgun, too. I think this is because this game has its roots in america. But I can help you with a link: http://www.shotgunrules.com/

Hmm... that website doesn't appear to be a reliable source under Wikipedia policy. But I have added Germany in alphabetical order to the article. Melchoir 21:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

As the rules of calling shotgun are constantly changed by the people who use them with local customs, house rules, exceptions for certain people, etc, I don't think that a website attemping to list a set of rules needs to be of the quality that one concerning a scientific topic would be, for example. I think that several of the websites that attempt to define a standard set of rules merit consideration for inclusion into the article. Robogymnast 02:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm from Germany and am totally unfamiliar with "calling shotgun" though there might be quarrels about who gets to sit up front (among siblings etc). There is no rule other than whoever reaches the door first gets the seat. But I can't speak for every German so I have to believe that some people do know and play "shotgun".

I'm German, too. I'm also unfamiliar with yelling "shotgun". Never heard anybody do it here. What my brother and I used to yell as kids though, is "Vornsitzer". Now this noun does not officially exist in the German language, but derrives from "vorne sitzen" meaning "sitting in front". So, had we been Americans, we might have yelled "frontsitter"...

I'm like many other from germany and we, I and my friends, and people in my circle of acquaintances (like my cousins and their partners) do know and use "shotgun". I am 18 and in my last year of school, and my cousins are just finished with medschool. I would suggest that you add the german version of shotgun as only related to the younger ones.--77.190.67.136 (talk) 00:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

To add another german voice: we were calling shotgun in ~1990 and it seemed to be normal. I had no idea were this game came from and I doubt the others had. I Didn't hear anyone yell 'shotgun' in a long time until recently---that's why I came here. If there's anyone to make a section like 'references in popular culture': the game "Half-Life 2: Episode 2" has a scene with a character calling 'shotgun' when entering a car. 84.46.39.239 (talk) 00:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I have never heard of calling shotgun or of any rules covering it in Denmark. Children might say "dibs on the front seat" or some equivalent, but shotguns are never involved. Lupus Ignis (talk) 08:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

As yet another German: I only know shot-gun from imported US TV, where it typically is a somewhat juvenile adult character who makes the call. The lead from Psych would be a good example of the type of character (but I cannot guarantee that he, specifically, has done it). Occasionally, this also applies to adults who have a somewhat juvenile relationship, e.g. two adult siblings, without being individually juvenile. 88.77.182.94 (talk) 17:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Misconceptions

I have re-added this section, this time with citations. I think it can be considered fairly verifiable encyclopedic content. Dreadpirate Roberts 07:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

unsourced rule removal

I just discovered this entry, and was amazed at the quality and scope of the coverage of all of the rules to this game, most of which I had heard before, and some of which I've heard though with different, perhaps, local nomenclature. Sadly, someone removed all of these rules in one fell swoop just for the rules being "unsourced". I think it would be better to annotate requests for source than removing the rules entirely. The entry was accurate by my reading. pohl Thu Nov 9 11:59:22 CST 2006

Wikipedia's criterion for incusion is "verifiability, not truth". If it's accurate but can't be proven to be accurate from reliable sources, it can be removed. — Haeleth Talk 11:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

It's called "no original research". Wikipedia is not a rule book for going on a road trip. Philwelch 03:25, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The article was a mess and there was no way any of that stuff was going to gain sources. It's better to delete it all and start again, with a strict requirement on sources for things that do get added. --Dtcdthingy 04:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

there's a link at the bottom of the page to shotgunrules.com. that's sufficient. wikipedia does not have to publish their rules. it is not the business of an encyclopedia to teach people how to call shotgun 69.81.57.152 (talk) 22:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Joust question

Amongst all the people I ever 'played' this game with, Joust (or shotgun no joust) is called the same as blitz, but as opposed to the race to touch the door or handle, contenders for shotgun face off in a quick best 2 of 3 rock, paper, scissors game, anyone else familar with this variation?

Origin

Does the term originate from riding the "Shotgun" position on a Horse and Carriage setup. I.E. The guy not "driving"? I was watching The Magnificent Seven and McQueens character sais "I'll ride shotgun" and took the passanger position holding a shotgun. meh.

Same Poster answers his own question via Wikipedia of all sources:-P The below link is in the main article: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrideshotgun.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.131.29.168 (talk • contribs).

I added it back, but with a comment that it comes from fiction about the Old West (as opposed to its originating from that time). The article mentioned that the phrase dates back to 1921, however it did not say in what way it was used, and where the "shotgun" part comes from. Regardless of when the term was coined, it should be noted that it was first used to refer to the guy with the shotgun. --daranz^t 17:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Good job. Philwelch 06:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Rules for "shotgun"

I have flagged this as original research as there is no proper sourcing, the subject is an informal game and "rules" vary wildly from one group of friends/family to another. See WP:V, WP:OR and WP:MADEUP. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 18:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, however I feel I must add that these are very atypical shotgun rules. Most people I know play with the "Offical rules of shotgun" http://www.shotgunrules.com/ which are certainly less stupid and more widely acknowledged than the Texas challenge rule listed here. Goon (20/6/2007).

Audible

I think this is a good rule and use it when me and my friends want shotgun. An Audible can be called by the original person who called Shotgun if a 2nd party has brought the Blitz rule into affect. like if a Quarterback is in shotgun formation, the defense uses a blitz but then the QB uses an audible to avoid the blitz. so by calling an audible the person who originaly called shotgun would still get shotgun.

History

The date and the reference cited conflict. The article was initially correct, but someone has changed it to be incorrect.

Wiki article:

"The first known reference to "riding shotgun" in print occurred on 27 March 1861"

The reference:

"The earliest usage we've found in pulp fiction occurs in the March 27, 1921"

The change shouldn't have been made.

Beckman 22:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, somebody has been vandalizing this, and the reference correctly is 1921. Thanks for fixing it:

So stagecoach guards rode shotgun – they just didn't call it that in the 1880s, as far as anyone has yet discovered. The term "riding shotgun" to refer to the guard sitting next to the driver doesn't emerge from the Old West but rather from movies and TV shows about the Old West. To date no one has found a cite for "riding shotgun" during the time stagecoaches were actually used. The earliest usage we've found in pulp fiction occurs in the March 27, 1921 issue of the Washington Post's "Magazine of Fiction," in a story entitled "The Fighting Fool" by Dane Coolidge. The opening lines are: "Lum Martin!" shouted McMonagle, owner of the Cow Ranch saloon, waving his finger in front of Benson's face, "that's the man – Lum Martin! He's ridin' shotgun forWells Fargo – or was until last week – and he's over in my saloon right now, playin' solitaire!"

I see no 1861. I see an assertion that the term does not occur until Westrn pulps of 1921. If somebody has a different reference, cite it! SBHarris 05:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

shotgun not?

What about a mention of the phrase "shotgun not", which comes under the terms of dibs#variations? --123.51.103.64 (talk) 05:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Shotgunrules.com removed

I removed shotgunrules.com from the External links. It's not an official site for shotgun rules, it's a commercial site by a group of people. I don't think we should include sites like that because then why shotgunrules.com and not my or someone else' site? -- Northern (talk) 22:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

You ought to provide an alternative then. No point removing widely accepted sources because they aren't "official". The government aren't going to provide a definition by law, are they? This is a public matter, ergo it is dealt with by the public. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.75.169 (talk) 14:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

It's not widely accepted. With all due respect, a site with an Alexa rating of 500k isn't exactly "widely" anything.
Also, their name is misleading. If we keep them, and include their name, people might think that it's somehow an official site for this and this would simply be misleading. -- Northern (talk) 07:24, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Duties of the Shotgun rider

The shotgun rider will take care of all minor chores that require getting out of the truck briefly. In the western states, (I live in Arizona) we sometimes ride in our pick-up trucks on rangeland. It is customarily the duty of the shotgun rider to get out to open any gates to let the truck through and then close the gate behind the truck to prevent the cattle from escaping. Alexselkirk1704 (talk) 22:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

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American?

I don’t believe this expression exists in the uk. 2A02:8012:7A83:0:64B7:6769:3F1:2250 (talk) 10:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)