Talk:Mohammed Deif

old talk

He is a suspected bombmaker. other details now corrected. Greg Godwin 14:06 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

It might be good to say who suspecs him of being a bombmaker. If it's Israel, why not say so? --Ed Poor 14:08 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

OK hope that clears it up. Confirmed by Israel and Hamas as being a military commander, but only claimed to be a bombmaker by Israel. Hamas of course will not confirm or deny his acts.

the 9\11 bombers are also claimed\suspected terrorists ? the US claims that they are terrorist ? bin laden is also just suspected ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.43.246.250 (talk) 08:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Nicely done. Hey, how much time do you have? There's a lot more work to do around here... --Ed Poor

Point me to it and i'll have a look over things. Greg Godwin 14:21 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Survived 5 other attacks?

If this is true and not hearsay, a reference should be included.

According to UN definition, Deif should be described as a terrorist

From Wikipedia page on Terrorism:

In November 2004, a United Nations Secretary General report described terrorism as any act "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act". — Preceding unsigned comment added by ValuableAppendage (talk • contribs) 20:01, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

• We're not going there. There is no way that POV can be kept out of this. Kindly refrain from stating opinions as facts in Wikipedia articles. Drmies (talk) 22:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

It seems obvious to any impartial reader that wikipedia whose owner is after all from the same culture sides systematically with one side. Your definition of 'terrorism' clearly applies the more so to the bombing of Gaza... not to speak that the site is since its blockade a 'concentration camp' as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities..." And yet nobody uses that 'exact term'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.33.104.6 (talk) 09:54, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

BLPSPS

Concerning [1]. Where in the policy does it say it applies only to primary sources? --Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 02:31, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Point of friction between Israeli leaders and Arafat

At one point, Arafat seemed to be actively protecting Deif, while simultaneously telling Israeli government leaders that he knew nothing about the whole thing. This was a significant episode in the downward spiral of trust between the Israeli government and Arafat... AnonMoos (talk) 13:18, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Fox News on Deif's alleged killing

Fox News report specifies the date as "early Wednesday" which would therefore be the 20th of the month. Other sources seem to include this attack together with other attacks Tuesday night, but since the report of his death is based on Fox News we should give the date of the 20th. I already made the necessary correction in the page but it was reverted. Tkuvho (talk) 07:18, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Someone edit

Hey i recently added his number of childrens as 3 (2 daughters and 1 martyred seven months old son 'Ali') but as per sources Deif's wife had 2 more sons from here previous marriage so how to add that in his infobox I don't know.... Since I'm not that experienced🫠 Faraz Sualeh (talk) 03:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Why is this topic controversial?

I understand the long history between Israel and Palestine but what has happened is unacceptable in terms of humanity. The article infers that this attack was acceptable consequence of the conflict. It's quite sad to see intellectuals not be able to call balls and strikes fairly. Same would apply to Israel if and when such things occur. There's baked in bias. 2601:249:8B00:6C84:C48D:12B0:25D7:6347 (talk) 01:34, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

It's controversial because there's ample evidence of Israel engaging in similarly inhumane and 'unacceptable' behavior. What is 'acceptable' is a matter of perspective. Jamesiepoo88 (talk) 01:42, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Correct, @Jamesiepoo88 -- hence your comment is entirely composed of rancid bile and is completely subjective OR. 65.88.88.56 (talk) 18:46, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Okie doke! Jamesiepoo88 (talk) 19:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

October 11, 2023 bombing killing Deif's brother and two other relatives

On Wednesday, 11 October, the Jerusalem Post reported that a Deif family home was bombed earlier that same day by Israeli forces. Deif's brother (or a brother of Deif) and two other relatives were killed. Should be added, no? Other reliable sourcing also, including Reuters. 65.88.88.56 (talk) 18:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 21:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2023

Real Name: Mohammed Diab al-Masri [2] Proffession: Terrorist [3] Nowhere of things (talk) 10:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the France 24 source. That's added. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2023

He’s not a militant. He’s a terrorist, internationally recognized terrorist. He works for a terrorist organization called Hamas. This information is misleading and just WRONG. Likamek (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. NotAGenious (talk) 15:29, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

MOS:TERRORIST discussed this in detail, and the article states that The United States Department of State added Deif to its list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists.... NotAGenious (talk) 15:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Image

Hi @HaeB, I want to discuss your removal of the fair-use image a few days ago. I respectfully disagree with your reasoning; him not appearing in public has been remarked upon by media.

I understand that he isn't dead, but several living individuals have fair-use images. David Berkowitz is arguably more accessible than Deif, as his location is known and he is open for interviews, but he has a fair-use image (due to his permanent imprisonment). Similarly, Jho Low and Samantha Lewthwaite are fugitives and also have a fair-use image.

I think the best comparison would be Hibatullah Akhundzada, who also is very famous but completely inaccessible. There are only three known photographs of Deif, and one is a silhouette. Bremps... 00:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

To clarify, Deif is not imprisoned like Berkowitz, but he is similarly inaccessible to the public. Bremps... 00:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for expanding on your WP:NFCC#1 rationale, but WP:OTHERIMAGE explicitly discourages such comparisons with other articles. The article you link to is interesting, but I'm not convinced it conclusively shows that no photo could be created at all even in the future. (By the way, regarding their claim that In the public domain, only three images of Deif are available - one in his 20s, another of him masked, and the third one is the image of his shadow, which the TV used when broadcasting the audio tape: This already seems inaccurate, considering that the photo they show on top of the article is neither masked nor of his shadow, but also different from the photo you uploaded from [4], no?)

I would suggest to open a thread at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content where such tricky cases are frequently discussed. Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Article overhaul

I just edited the article, adding new information, restructuring the sections and paragraphs and adding a photo.

I removed the Quotes section, as I felt it was not needed here. We don't have quotes on other biography pages. I also removed from the infobox the details about Deif leading the Battle of Gaza (2007) and the 2008 Gaza War, because as per the referenced information I added to the article body, effective authority over the Hamas military wing between July 2006 and November 2012 was exercised not by Deif, but by Ahmed Jabari, due to injuries sustained by Deif in an assassination attempt.

If you disagree with any of those changes, feel free to discuss them in a reply to this topic. Kindly ping me if you do.

Thanks. Moazfargal (talk) 21:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2023

spelling: change "adress" to "address" in the photo caption of Deif which currently reads "Picture of a shadow, used in an audio adress by Deif". Bondonk (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 17:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Full name

Makeandtoss removed Deif's full name from the lead and infobox while keeping it in the first section. I think the full name should be displayed in the lead and infobox. Any thoughts? Moazfargal (talk) 20:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

There’s no such thing as four parts “full names” in Arabic. Full name is the first name and family name. Adding his father’s and grandfather’s name has no value. Makeandtoss (talk) 20:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

As a native Arabic speaker, there are full names in Arabic. And biographical pages like Donald Trump and Joe Biden don't only show the first and family names. Moazfargal (talk) 20:51, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

@Moazfargal: Joe Biden and Donald Trump's names have middle names, which are specific to them, and these are not their father's names. What benefit did readers get from knowing his father and grandfather's name in the first sentence? Makeandtoss (talk) 12:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: I mean, it's not that much less than the benefit to readers of Trump's and Biden's middle names, whether or not these middle names aren't father names. In fact, the articles still mention Trump's father name (haven't checked Biden's), albeit not in the first sentence. Therefore, I can understand omitting the "Diab Ibrahim" part from the first sentence, but I still think it should be shown in the infobox. Moazfargal (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I have edited the article accordingly. Moazfargal (talk) 14:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Full name, part II

• Full name is Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri per "Early life" -- should be added to lede and infobox. 96.246.238.31 (talk) 01:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Assassination attempts section edit request

"It was believed that the seven assassination attempts have lost Deif an eye and limbs, leaving him wheelchair-bound. After the 2006 assassination attempt, Deif spent three months in Egypt for treatment of his skull after shrapnel lodged in it, and he continues to take tranquillizers daily to treat headaches. Hamas has not confirmed or denied these claims and doesn't comment on his health. His survival has earned him the nickname 'the cat with nine lives' among his Israeli adversaries."

Article from the Jerusalem post dated December 20, 2023 (https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-778785) refutes the claim. "From these videos, it now appears that Deif’s condition is significantly better than Israel had believed following a long series of attacks, some of which wounded him. Deif is able to walk on his own and does not use a wheelchair. He probably has use of both his hands." AninnymouseEditor (talk) 18:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Health

@M3ATH: Please restore the information on his health to the lede, considering the lede is a summary of body. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:41, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss: As I said in the edit summary, the information on his length is now considered inaccurate after the latest findings of Israeli intelligence. I have kept the information about the state in which his health was presumed to be in the body, and added the new information about the captured footage that proves those assumptions wrong. —M3ATH (See · Say) 12:54, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@M3ATH: The same Israeli intelligence that failed to anticipate 7 October? They don't prove the assumptions wrong, they prove that they have changed; either case still has to be mentioned in lede; as lede is a summary of body. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:58, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss:I mean, the same intelligence that failed to predict 7 October is the same intelligence that had these assumptions in the first place. If you are going to dismiss the notion that he is healthy because Israeli intelligence said that while believing that he isn't in good health, you're contradicting yourself.

As for the point that the lead is a summary of the body, that is true, but saying that he was assumed to be in bad shape without saying that he is now assumed to be in good shape gives a false idea to the reader.

Even though I think this unnecessarily lengthens an already long lead just to say that he's fine, I'll say that we add to the lead the sentence: "It was thought that the assassination attempts had left Deif partially handicapped, but footage gathered by the Israeli military has since shown him in a significantly better condition." What do you say?

—M3ATH (See · Say) 13:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Mohammed Deif has several wives

Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Bakbik1234 (talk) 18:10, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

User:‏David O. Johnson could you help with this? I have noticed you edit a lot of pages regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Bakbik1234 (talk) 03:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Typo in body of category: "Assassination Attempts"

"In October 2023, during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Deif's father house was hit by an Israeli airstrike, killing Deif's brother and two other family members. It was unclear whether or not the airstrike targeted Deif."

I believe that this sentence should be changed to:

"In October 2023, during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, Deif's father's house was hit by an Israeli airstrike, killing Deif's brother and two other family members. It was unclear whether or not the airstrike targeted Deif."

I do not have Extended-Confirmed edit permissions, so if someone else could make this change for me, that would be helpful. Thanks!

JohnR1Roberts (talk) 01:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Mohammed Deif/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: M3ATH (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Asilvering (talk · contribs) 22:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, planning to get to this by this weekend. -- asilvering (talk) 22:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

General comments

1. There are no images in this article whatsoever. We may not have a good free image of him himself, but surely a useful free image can be found that is related to the article? -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Please take another run through the article for npov issues; for example, daring and successful raid is not acceptable wikivoice. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
3. There is a lot of overcitation here to sources of questionable reliability. Many of these sources are simply working off articles by other newsrooms; many articles I checked have no byline. Please try to cut out the churnalism here and stick to the best-quality sources. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

M3ATH, I think this is a fail in its current state, and that it is sufficiently far from meeting the criteria that a QF could be justified. But I don't think it's an impossible ask to tidy this up within a week, and I know you've been waiting a while for this review, so I'll leave the choice up to you. If you're prepared to do a lot of work on it, I'm happy to keep the review open and see where we can get. -- asilvering (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.