Talk:List of countries by national capital and largest cities

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Older comments[edit]

"Largest city, if that is not the capital" - interesting idea, how about placing it into an additional column, called "larger cities"? -- User:Docu

Yes, that would be better. - Patrick 10:26, 9 Sep 2003 (EDT)

I reworked it into this format and added a few, but I'm not sure if finally we wouldn't be better of to include the information on List of cities by country (one that could be reworked into largest cities by country including population numbers). Thus feel free to reverse my edit. -- User:Docu

Why are we filling up this page with non-capital cities. Surely that isn't the reason for this page. Rmhermen 14:52, Sep 15, 2003 (UTC)
My idea was that the page is mainly about capitals, but, since in most cases the capital is the largest city, it would be an interesting extra to mention the exceptions. That has been done. Putting in a whole list of cities for each country perhaps goes a little too far beyond the original purpose of the page. - Patrick 21:09, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Perhaps you should rename this page to List of national capitals by country and other larger cities in each country. Really it doesn't make sense to include non-capitals on this page. Besides now largest cities are being listed on each country page. Rmhermen 18:34, Oct 6, 2003 (UTC)
Done, without "other". - Patrick 23:39, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Maybe List of capitals and larger cities by country would do? -- User:Docu
Good idea. - Patrick 21:41, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
There (Here) it is now -- Docu

I think it's useful to include the largest city. Don't just delete! Why not create a separate List of largest cities by country? --Jiang 19:31, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

A separate list would be fine. But largest cities are not capital cities and so have no place on this list page. rmhermen 19:46, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Why so? The table doesn't really mix them and "lists including only capitals" can be found everywhere. Besides, the template for countries now juxtaposes them as well. -- User:Docu.
Yes, and the countries page is a great place for that information. But a page on capital cities should have information on capital cities, not confusing information on cities that are not capital cities. If I read across New Zealand Wellington Auckland which is the capital. The header only shows for the a's and most of the b's country listings. (And I don't tend to read header text on what looks like an obvious listing. I bet many others don't either.) Perhaps lists of capitals can be found elsewhere but this is Wikipedia's list. At least it should function as named. Rmhermen 22:14, Oct 6, 2003 (UTC)
To make it easier to read, we could repeat part of the header cells or drop the letters. -- User:Docu.

Not sure who moved this but perhaps List of national capitals and largest cities by country would be better if we want one list to do two things. Rmhermen 21:22, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)

With "larger" is meant "larger than the capital". - Patrick 21:33, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Updates[edit]

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam is larger than the capital Hanoi. 6 October 2003, 17:25 Central Daylight Time |EdwinHJ

Added Wales and Northern Ireland into the "List of capitals and larger cities of dependent territories" category with their respective capitals

Restructure?[edit]

The list as it is now is (capitals+cities larger than capital is) somewhat arbitrary. IMO it would be better to have one column for cities (instead of two like now), and with a comma seperated list of cities sorted by size, with the capital in bold. The criteria for inclusion should be:

  • In principle, include 5 largest cities, but
    • Include the capital(s); if ranked lower than 5, say: "Washington DC (ranked 21)".
    • List all cities above 1 million, but don't make the list longer than 10 (it's a contradiction in terms, but you know what I mean).
    • Don't list cities under 100.000

And move the list to List of capitals and large cities by country How does that sound? -- User:Zocky

Sounds good, though, I'd prefer to see the five largest cities in rows rather than columns. Preferably the list would be at List of cities by country.
Since the list of national capitals by country has become the List of capitals and larger cities by country, the field "largest city" has been added to the country template at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries as a optional field, thus it's not really that arbitrary.
--User:Docu
I agree that the capital + the largest city is not arbitrary, but IMO, the capital+ the cities larger than the capital is - cities larger than the capital in various countries don't have that many peculiar properties in common. And when I say in one column, I mean: 1 country = 1 row = 2 cells = country name + comma separated list of cities. Does that sound logical? Zocky 16:57, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)
It does, I should have written column instead of columns, even though the CSV would be just like columns. Following your suggest, what I had in mind for List of cities by country is something like:
Country (1-200);city name;rank (usually 1-5);population (maybe);capital (if applicable)
--User:Docu


How about:

Australia

Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Canberra

Belize

Belize City, Corozal Town, Dangriga, Orange Walk Town, Belmopan (ranked 6)

Zocky 23:12, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Personally, I think it would be simpler to just put the single largest city in that column and leave it at that. Funnyhat 01:27, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

None of the Spanish cities listed under Primate Cities (Larger than the Capital) are actually larger than the capital. Madrid is the country's largest city. (04 Jul 2005)

Done. Circa 1900 05:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem[edit]

We can either

  • List Jeruslaem as Israel's capital without any qualifications
    OR
  • Put the qualifications how other countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv.

I think if we want to put the qualification, we ought to put the struggle that the United States has with this issue (i.e. the details about how Jerusalem Embassy Relocation Act). --Asbl 06:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think the way you footnoted it is very fair. Good idea. EdwinHJ | Talk 17:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I propose rewording "Some countries do not recognize Israeli sovereignty over the eastern portion of Jerusalem, so they maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv[1]." to "Most countries do not recognize Israeli sovereignty over the eastern portion of Jerusalem, so they maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv[1]." (i.e. some -> most). In the Jerusalem article it is said that only two countries have their embassies in Jerusalem (two out of like what? eighty?). Therefore it could safely be reworded into "most countries".

Done --Asbl 19:59, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


WikiWeakness[edit]

A WikiWeakness is rearing its ugly head here;


• WikiWeakness #142: Governance by consensus rather than verifiable fact allows erroneous, misleading, or disingenuous information to be present as if it is verified fact when, in reality, it is simply what the majority of people agree to allow on the page – true or not.


The third column presents cities that are larger than the capital city to the left, at least that is the explanation across the top of the page. The wording is, “In case that the capital is not the largest city, the third column gives the cities that are larger.” If that is what is being presented on this page – then WikiConsensus has given birth to yet more erroneous and misleading information. Follow the hyperlink and check for yourself. According to the population figures presented on individual Wikipages (which are suspect at best) Dhaka is considerably larger than Chittagong, yet Chittagong is presented as being larger. For Bhutan; Thimphu is presented as being smaller than Phuentsholing. For Uganda Kampala is presented as being smaller than Entebbe. The list goes on, and on, and on…


Either the wording needs to be corrected, i.e. get rid of the sentence , “In case that the capital is not the largest city, the third column gives the cities that are larger,” because it is simply incorrect, or the layout of the table needs to be altered to truthfully present cities ranked by population. 202.79.62.12 03:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lisbon as the largest city[edit]

Lisbon (...) is the capital and largest city of Portugal. (from the Lisbon article.)

Lisbon states that Lisbon is the largest city in Portugal. I truly believe Lisbon's bigger than Porto, as stated there, although as I'm not sure, I'll not change this list. jοτομικρόν | Talk 23:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As a Portuguese, I can assure you that Lisbon is considerably larger than Porto. Afonso Silva 08:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also Portuguese, but I didn't know the criteria used to compare the cities. Anyway, thanks for the editing. jοτομικρόν | Talk 19:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictory : Sudan?[edit]

The map shows Sudan as a country which has a capital that is not the largest city. The Khartoum article claims that Khartoum is the capital but the second largest city. It doesn't give the largest city.

This article does not give a larger city in the table even though it is on the map —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Evilbu (talk • contribs) .

Fixed per article on Sudan. Thank you. --Asbl 17:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Myanmar[edit]

Doesn't Myanmar need to be highlighted on the map? 81.79.182.77 11:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of capitals of aspirant states[edit]

Since Somaliland and Northern Cyprus (or if I must, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) are listed in the "List of Countries" article, shouldn't they be listed here as well? Alternatively, to stay consistant between articles, should there be a table for the countries listed as "states lacking general international recognition" (unless I'm stirring up a bee's nest here) including Western Sahara, Palestine, Northern Cyprus/TRNC, Transnistria/Pridnestrovie, Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhasia, South Ossetia, and Somaliland? --Paploo 17:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why Chechnya is still in the list? There could be some dispute about whether Chechen rebels control any significant territory, but undoubtedly Grozny is controlled by Russians (and Chechens loyal to Russia). On the other hand there is no Northern Cyprus and Somaliland capitals.Alaexis 17:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed Chechnya and added Somaliland and Northern Cyprus. Btw, what about Taiwan? It is not recognised by the majority of other countries and does not have a seat at the UN. Should it be moved to the aspirant states category or not?Alaexis 16:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dependent territories[edit]

I removed Spanish Provinces, Italian Islands, Corsica and United Kingdom constituences (Wales, Scotland, England). They are not dependent territories and their inclusion IMO opens a Pandora's box of nationalism, as well as a path for inclusion of all possible "subnational entities". Countries have different levels of autonomy of its sub-entities, but we should stick to dependent territories as defined in that article. Duja► 10:35, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed some 'federal' or 'province' type capitals. This is article is on nation states and a separate one should be done for regional and local government. If we are to be fair, then the article should include Indian, Australian, Austrian, Canadian, US, Belgian, Brazilian and a host of other nations which have 'capitals'. Dependent territories are smaller entities which are in some poltiical or personnel union with a larger nation, and not a core part of that state. eg, Wales is not a dependent territory of the UK, its an intergral part of it, while the Isle of Man, Falklands ec ARE dependent territories. 62.56.82.169 12:37, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a list of capitals by country, and does not include England, Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. United Kingdom is NOT a country, but a Nation (and is listed elsewhere as such). Phooto (talk) 09:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

About Beijing and Chongqing[edit]

Chongqing is listed as a bigger city than capital Beijing, that's not true, you can't judge Chinese cities by the population figures of provincial-level municipalities, especially for Chongqing, a much larger surface area than others make it more like a province. So according to its urban area, Chongqing is not even the third or the fourth in China. Whether it's the biggest city in the SouthWestern Region is still disputed.

Guadeloupe[edit]

Why is Guadeloupe not in the list? If no objections I would like to add it. --TopoMania (talk) 21:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added Guadeloupe. Although it isn't according to the page Dependent_territories, I added it under the section Dependent Territories because French Guiana, Martinique, and Réunion are already listed there and they are all integral parts of the French Republic --TopoMania (talk) 21:41, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

United Kingdom? As opposed to England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland[edit]

Why is the UK listed instead of the four above countries? 84.45.134.188 (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The British "countries" do not possess sovereignty. The UK is a unitary state; the "countries" have less autonomy than the components of federations such as the US States, Canadian Provinces, and the States of Australia. Do you want to add hundreds of items to this list just so it can include Belfast? 23:18, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
No, I was just curious 84.45.134.188 (talk) 23:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anguilla before American Samoa?[edit]

Shouldn't American Samoa be listed before Anguilla? RussHiggins (talk) 16:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Edmonton is NOT larger than Ottawa.[edit]

The population of Edmonton is around 700,000 and Ottawa is 800,000. The metropolitan area of Edmonton is 1,034,945 and the one of Ottawa is 1,130,761. Therefore, I will remove it from the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sega31098 (talk • contribs) 04:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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