Oliver is Lir II (Re: [Wikipedia-l] This whole Lir and Americanization thing)

Mon Nov 25 04:14:06 UTC 2002

Oliver -- I hope I do not understand you correctly in that you think I
was somehow insulting Lir.  I don't know Lir, only what  I've seen of
his work.  Although I certainly used what are generally considered
pejorative terms to refer to Lir's behavior, I think one can only say
that they are pejorative when there is no justification for their use.
That is sadly not the case.    It is honorable for you to stick up for
Lir, and unfortunate that you were mistaken for him.  I suggest that the
response to your post is merely indicative of the unpleasant feelings
that Lir tends to stir up.  If he has been insulted,  I'm sorry, but I
think that my estimation of Lir's behavior is based much more in fact
that Lir's very insulting and groundless accusations towards people who
don't agree with him.  BTW, I also do not in any way blame you for the
Saints' tragic win yesterday ;-)  I did find it interesting that you
knew I was a sysop and had been here a while, when I've been gone for
months -- you can't be that much of a newbie!

Lir -- hyperbole, especially when coupled with unveiled sarcasm,  isn't
really a persuasive form of debate.  It's merely annoying.  I suspect
you know that and don't care.

Other than that, I like Anthere's idea of adding a pronunciation guide.
One drawback is that I think there may not be a universal guide -- I
think Americans use a different system of notation (but am not sure).
Also, I teach east Asian history.  I grew up with Wade-Giles, am
becoming more familiar with Pinyin by the day, and neither comes close
to approximating the correct pronunciations.  

Jules